Interview Transcript from Illawarra Stories Wollongong City Libraries Oral History Project – Joseph (Joe) Smith
Interviewer: Darian Zam and Kirstin Bokor
Interview date: 4 April 2018
Darian Zam: So it was about the…?
Joseph Smith: Corrimal swimming pool.
Darian Zam: And it was outside of Council?
Joseph Smith: Outside of the employees of Council.
Darian Zam: Right.
Joseph Smith: So this created the disturbance.
Darian Zam: Right.
Joseph Smith: [cough] And was it out of the thing. So finally, as I say, it went before the commission and the decision in favour that the Council was acting correctly.
Darian Zam: Yeah. Was that a new thing at that time, that people were being employed from outside the Council for the first time?
Joseph Smith: No, no, no, the – appreciate we’re talking of 1930-, ah, 19 – [unclear] 1970, say 1973. Well, the trade unions were much stronger than they are now. And, ah, Unions would have, well show-, closed shops that, they had to get preference, you know. So this was nothing new it was just that [cough] normally we don’t involve ourselves when we’re on the Council until it was a senior appointment like for Deputy Town Clerk or Engineer. But, but this was a, a manager of a pool. But the Corrimal pool at, even in its inception, the lead up to it was very political.
Kirstin Bokor: Hm-mm.
Joseph Smith: So consequently this created an atmosphere of public interest. [cough] Anyhow, when we was opening so the employees continued in, in the industrial dispute and it then went to the higher court.
Kirstin Bokor: Wow. So it went from the Industrial Commission?
Joseph Smith: That’s down here, local.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: He acted as commissioner down here.
Kirstin Bokor: Hm-mm.
Joseph Smith: Which is they don’t give a ruling, they’re an adviser like you know. I’ll explain that later on if you like.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: Well when it went up further well actually I couldn’t continue because after legal it’s gotta be litigation, see, an argument. So it went to Sydney, and they put up their cases and finally the person was joined, was ah, appointed was Davie Anderton. Well, I accepted, what I mean to say, we then accepted the decision, and he was made the first manager of Corrimal swimming pool.
Kirstin Bokor: Oh, right. [ripping sound] So it was, um…
Joseph Smith: David Anderton and he used to work for Wollongong Council.
Kirstin Bokor: Okay.
Joseph Smith: Yeah. So that’s about that part. Um, I suppose that’s some interest. You might just want, you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah. And so were a lot of those arguments in Council that was in the town hall building, it was, that was the Council chambers?
Joseph Smith: Oh yeah, because yeah, within Council with but in Council structure, but also you would meet them, say the employee, the union, in the town hall, in the, um, Lord Mayor’s chamber. That was continually, we did that regular. That was part of the thing you know. That was a regular procedure. And I have no objections to their, their argument because I was a union involvement and I, I but on this occasion I felt it was any trade union, because this man was a member of a trade union, had the best qualifications. And I felt that I was more the union, you know. They were using personality involvement. And in fact the town, the Trades and Labor Council secretary at the time and I and him had a very strong argument about it. But I, my interpretation was trade union and his was personal. So that was something you might be able to story about that I suppose.
Kirstin Bokor: And no, this is, this is actually the biggest gap that we have in the research and the stories that have come forward. So this is so what we’re looking for. Who was Trades and Labor secretary at this time?
Joseph Smith: Merv Nixon.
Darian Zam: He’s now passed away.
Joseph Smith: Yeah.
Darian Zam: I think he passed on in 1993 or something.
Joseph Smith: Anyhow, if again try to break in again, if all, when you write this down, you know, you’d let me look at it and say, you know…
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah. We’ll check the facts.
Joseph Smith: Because I could say well that’s not what I meant; you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Absolutely. I’ll definitely write this up and…
Joseph Smith: Okay. Well, that’s one of the things I think you could talk about.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: Ah, now Beaton Park. Now how Beaton Park came about…
Darian Zam: I’m going to have to ask where Beaton Park is, sorry.
Joseph Smith: The one at, ah, Corrimal – ah, at Wollongong, in Gwynneville. The Beaton Park sports complex at, ah, Gwynneville.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah, lots of sport activities happen.
Joseph Smith: But at Beaton Park but now is the talk of the, of the complex that exists as Beaton Park now. Prior to them it wasn’t there. See you had tennis courts and, and a park and the basketball thing. So the Beaton Park Sports Complex.
Kirstin Bokor: Was this in the ’70s as well this..?
Joseph Smith: Yeah. Now it came about, I was secretary of Corrimal, I was a foundation member of Corrimal’s pool committee which was trying to get a common, a swimming pool at Corrimal.
Darian Zam: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: I was a foundation member. I was on that one too, but then towards the end we decided something had to be done and we had to do more than just fiddle around, you know this is in the political in the Labor party. I was a member; I was in the Labor party. So but however I was going for a, a, a tour, a fairly extensive tour because of my interest as, as a professional swimming coach. In the process of doing this I, I was looking at facilities, at pools and so on. But a friend of mine made arrangements for you, for me to meet the representative of Cardiff County Council. So, what, what prompted me to do that, we thought if we’re stuck, the building of Corrimal pool could be done by stainless steel or something. In other words use the facility of the steelworks to get some assistance.
Kirstin Bokor: Okay.
Joseph Smith: Okay. In other words, what I’m saying to you, we were trying all sorts of ways of achieving what we, our aim. So the main reason we went to meet these people in Cardiff, and I was fortunate you know I met one of the Chief Engineers and a, and a architect from Cardiff County Council. I lived at Cardiff for a little while while I was doing these things. Not only that but other things. And they took me to this complex. I wanted to see this stainless-steel structure at this pool, just the swimming pool. But when I got there it was a complex, not just a swimming pool. It was a huge thing. There was a swimming pool, there was a, a, a restaurant there were facilities for twenty-six athletes in who might be in training. There was a all-purpose, ah, track and a soccer ground and very very marvellous construction, marvellous facility. So consequence of this that was, had a big impression on me. So later on, as I say, time went by, we, we did Corrimal Pool. I’ll talk about that later on I suppose how we got that, but [unclear] and we argued about and finally I prop-, disc-, discussed the proposal with some of the Labor Party councillors. And I said, ‘What about we give consideration to this?’ So I then submitted the prop-, I, I got to the, um, County Council in Cardiff and they sent me the information regarding the makeup, what it consisted of etc etc, you know. So I showed the blokes that and they said, ‘Oh, geez,’ you know. Bear in mind at that time, and this would I if I’m trying to get you to realise the atmosphere at that time. Well we were fairly strong in the unions, the sports people were, were involved. We were trying to get our facilities, I was coaching at, ah, Corrimal, Wollongong for quite a while, an old rock pool, you know. And here we’re competing against the best in the world, see.
Darian Zam: Trying to train in a rock pool.
Joseph Smith: And we were trying to, yeah, well were well and this, this was our standards, and feel, I felt we’ve gotta if we’re going to compete in the world, we gotta have a better facility. We had no heated pool and stuff like that. So I thought here’s the chance. So we, I talked to them, and we moved then, I moved that we, they set up a committee and I prepare a report and we’d hold three public meetings in Wollongong – Wollongong area – well in the Council area to ascertain, the support or otherwise. So the people elected was Ted Tobin, Joseph Smith and Fred Woodward, they were the three Aldermen. We made, ah, Ted the president of that little committee. So I first, I spoke, and it was a very lengthy report and I give all the facts and the things and so on. And, ah, that was at the Illawarra Leagues club, big meeting. And, ah, big support. Agreed with it, agreed with it. [coughs] Inter-, in, in my report I referred to two people, it was Robert Nay and, um, Cooper Yeah, no, they were two of the best in Australia and, and training in these facilities. And I said if we want to get better we’ve gotta move see. But anyhow I spoke for about an hour I suppose you know all through. And public meeting at Wollongong 100% wonderful idea. I then went to, the next public meeting was at the Corrimal Leagues Club, and I spoke the same report there, except I used some screens, slides, some screens – slides of the facilities I saw in the swimming pools in, in Japan. And how they could use the underground film and stuff like that. When I was in Japan I was a guest of the chipper Swimming Federation of Japan and they, you know, gave me, made me welcome to it. And so I had a few slides. So that went over very well so they could compare what the. Anyhow, that’s the introduct-, that’s a start, see. Well, anyhow all of the support was agreed and so on and so on. But finally then Council voted, said okay we proceed. We start to move, see what can be done, you know. [coughs] Just a bit of an aside, shouldn’t go into this, but however, I wanted to build, you know where the Water Board is down in Wollongong, you know that used, that used to be the gas works down there.
Kirstin Bokor: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Joseph Smith: Yep. Well I wanted to buy that and use that for the thing. And I had big arguments and arguments. And finally I got them to buy that and that’s what I had in mind to use it there see. Anyhow time went on so then we, we expanded the committee of course, we had to make it effective, you know, to invite all the different sports and so on. The, ah, you know, so it become a more broad and proper thing. Now then we continued and had meetings and do this and this. Well then finally, I went off Council and I went back swimming coaching and I moved away from the committee – I couldn’t do it. But however that committee continued and built the Beaton Park Sports Complex. And, ah, one hall is made, is named after Ted Tobin. That’s how it come about, that’s how it come about. So we can talk about that.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah. And so that kind of, that was really without any opposition?
Joseph Smith: Oh I wouldn’t, don’t say that I won’t say that.
Kirstin Bokor: No?
Joseph Smith: At times there was a little, but I was a, I’m not boasting but I was a pretty hard nut to, you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Oh, look, you don’t get these things up by being gentle.
Joseph Smith: Well, in the finish I was, I was, um, Chairman of Finance and Finance – it used to be the Finance and Staff committee of Wollongong Council. Well I was chairman of that for two years, you know. And at the same time I was doing that I as Chairman, deputy chairman of County Councils so I had bit of you know connections. So when the pool was built with well so that’s that’s how come about and it was a wonderful thing and, ah, has had a big import-, you know big effect on the thing.
Kirsten Bokor: So you helped her?
Joseph Smith: Now, but when I’m saying these things, I’m not saying I did it. A lot of one person doesn’t do these things. It’s done by a lot of…
Kirstin Bokor: A large community. Yeah. No, you’ve represented that very well.
Joseph Smith: But the, but as it happened that one really could be given to me.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah, sounds like you’ve got a lot of interest in sport.
Joseph Smith: Um, another organisation which came from Council, which I thought was very very good. You will no doubt talk to other people and [unclear] Another thing that I think was a wonderful development Wollongong Council was the State government decided they want to have a committee in various areas who would advise them on the allocations of money for sports facilities. Instead of someone because [unclear] would be getting money and some poor blighter who wouldn’t be getting it even though they might have needed a new sports ground or so on, see. [Coughs]. Now the State government probably tell had a meeting in the Beaton Park hall. I wasn’t on the Council at this time. I’d gone actually. And ah, they, yeah, they agreed, and they elected a committee. Ah, I was elected to it. The two people was me was president, Cull, Cullen, Cullen. You’ll find out she, she was a hockey, a well-known in the thing.
Kirstin Bokor: Okay.
Joseph Smith: Karen – name like that. So anyhow that was formed up and then we formed a, we drafted a constitution and was established and the, and so consequently arising out of this was the Sports Council was established.
Kirstin Bokor: Ah!
Joseph Smith: And that Illawarra Sports Council did a marvellous job. They used to make submissions on behalf, like, say the local tennis club had a problem they would come, and we’d get their submissions and tell them right now, say there might be half a dozen submissions. We’d submit them to the government and the government would allocate. And that was an excellent scheme except … But anyhow that was a very, I think it was wonderful and they then from that they got a committee on the Coun-, Wollongong Council advising on sport and I thought it was a wonderful development. But it gradually they went out every, I was the president of the Sports Council for some years. But I, ah, when I finished work and I was coaching and I felt that wasn’t my, you know, and so I didn’t. But it was, but I thought that was a wonderful development and should have been continued.
Kirstin Bokor: Yes, so do you know how long it lasted roughly?
Joseph Smith: Oh, about 10 years I suppose. Yes, and you know time affects your mind a bit too, you know, yeah. The next step one.
Kirstin Bokor: Bellambi Boat Harbour.
Joseph Smith: Now the boat harbour I think was one of the best campaigns in which I was involved. [coughs]. It started off, I was a member of the Corrimal RSL fishing Soldier’s club and the facilities at Bellambi, we did get them improved while I was on the Council ’cause we got sheds pulled down and improved the ramp a bit. But, but there was all, everyone used to get through Wollongong there and you’d have to be off at five o’clock in the morning and there’d be a queue of about fifty boats trying – the facilities for boating was pretty awful in this area. Pretty awful. [Coughs] So I said, ‘Look … ‘ Oh okay, so that started, ah, I talked to the RSL about what’s-a-name club – fishing club – and they said, ‘Gees that’d be beaut.’ So I went and contacted the Woonona RSL Fishing Club and they thought, ‘Gee, that’s a beaut idea.’ So I then took it to the political, you know, I was president of Corrimal Labor party
Kirstin Bokor: So what was that name again, sorry?
Joseph Smith: I was president of Corrimal ALP at the time – Labor Party. So I said to him, I said, ‘Look this we talked about it, what do you reckon?’ And they said, ‘Yeah, good, good, very good,’ see. So we kicked it off. Now we, first meeting we had at was Woonona RSL club. Quite a few people there. And we started and we proceeded to expand our support and at the finish we had forty-one organisations affiliated from Campbelltown there were were [unclear] clubs, there were – all because of fishing. And we got tremendous support, tremendous support. And I can tell you we had forty-one organisations in the finish that were affiliated and the people who worked very hard was Bill Jutt, Judd, Judd and his wife, they were Coast Guard. You might get their name, correct name from the Coast Guard at the time. Well one, they were, they were what helped me tremendously, ’cause I couldn’t type, and I’d do the stuff and they’d do the typing, do the work, and I’d get it out to the meetings. And, and finished up our executive was, ah, Ron Gibb from Woonona, Jack Reynolds from Bellambi fishing club and that continued and continued. And it was a, excellent we, we, among, among the campaigns or action in the campaign we one time I’m gonna organise the, the fishing boats with their, on their trailers come up Flagstaff Hill. I don’t know how many there, they were packed. These boats come up Flagstaff Hill. Then we met and they had the meeting and, and Frank Arkell was the Lord Mayor at the time, and he come to the meeting. And I spoke and then he got up after me and said that the Council would support us. I realise now that Bellambi boat harbour is over is any distance meal. You know. Yeah. I can’t remember the year but there’s a sign up there, you know. I don’t think I’ve got any, I don’t think I’ve got the… Anyhow that, that, that was a wonderful, oh, the people were, oh, tremendous, you know. To get that so many you know never been into anything before but coming on that was a wonderful experience.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah. Must have looked great all the boats up there. Put it on the trailers pulling the boats. People are completely covered. Amazing. We’ll try and find a photo.
Joseph Smith: Yeah.
Darian Zam: You saw some pretty big things happened during your time?
Joseph Smith: Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Kirstin Bokor: Can you describe for us what it was like to go into the Mayor’s room and have a meeting? Just so we can also set the scene ’cause you know they’re kind of they’re pulling it down, they’re cleaning it up, furniture’s been moved and…
Joseph Smith: Well the Mayor’s – your talking about.. You went into the Mayors you had the chairs just like so on. Well, then you had the, the Mayor had a little thing at the back for showers and do with that, you know. But, ah, but always when you had a, unless it was a political thing, something separate, you know, but they are not only our business, um, you always had the Town Clerk or his representative because it had to be official because you’re gonna sit there and it’s official stuff. Well, I don’t know what I can tell you about its appearance. I can tell you an experience I had if you like.
Kirstin Bokor: That would be great.
Joseph Smith: Appreciate many times the Lord Mayor’d be away, sick or whatever, well I’d act as Lord Mayor and this occasion there was a Debutante ball.
Darian Zam: The Debutante ball?
Joseph Smith: Debutante ball.
Darian Zam: Yeah, yeah.
Joseph Smith: All the, all the trimmings and bloomin’ and the red carpet and the Commodore with his bloomin’ braid and all. It was a real experience. ‘Cause I gotta lead them down the bloomin’ thing and into the what’s-a-name. And then I’m standing there presenting the stuff. So we asked if [unclear] it was a very testing experience!
Kirstin Bokor: So you can deal with fighting the Mayor you can deal with the Industrial Commission, but a Debutante ball is a bit frightening! [laughs]
Joseph Smith: Well it, it tested me, me nerves, not me nerve, me demur – what do they call – appear-, you know… And, ah, don’t put this though, my wife, Jess, my wife and I got – and she had a long dress of course and so on and one of the – what do you call it the, the bottom, the slip…
Kirstin Bokor: Oh, petticoat.
Joseph Smith: And she had to get it, pin it in the…
Kirstin Bokor: [laughs]
Joseph Smith: No one knew.
Kirstin Bokor: Now they do [laughs].
Joseph Smith: So that was, that was quite a bit of experience.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: Which was nice yeah the town hall, I don’t know what, what you know…
Kirstin Bokor: What about when you had meetings, was there a secretary in there taking notes.
Joseph Smith: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Well the setup of the Cou-, the set up your call your, your, your, first of all the Council is made up of Committees. First of all I must influence, people don’t understand the role of a Coun-, a local government authority. The Council really in reality has dormant power, that’s the Aldermen, not Council, dormant powers. But really they haven’t, they shouldn’t be running down busybody round that, that’s not the role. Their role is to sit and set policy would determine things and then the bureaucrats implement it. But they get in there and they’ve get heads on them like circus tents, and they think they can do all these things and that’s not their role. It’s just the same, the Wollongong, a Council, is just the same as the RTA.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: They’re a part of the State government. They’re not the government, they’re just a [unclear] sort of thing, and that’s their role, but they get carried away. So anyhow, but the, the mechanics of it when you form your electorate or whatever there might be twelve men or fifteen, whatever – we have people. They’re then elected into these committees with responsibilities. It used to be Health & Building, Library, Pollution committee, Planning committee. Like that. Yeah. So they’re, they met, you would meet, now then the Mayor was the Chairman of all committees, but that’s not practical. So what you had the Mayor or Lord Mayor as the officially Chairman of committee. But you elected a Vice president who really was the president. And he had to sign the, the minutes you know and that because it’s, that’s how the mechanics, common sense, see. So then your committee then made your submission, made target points about, you know, whether we pull this down. You deal with that and then you put it to full – and when you deal with that then you put it, to the full Council. Now the full Council is, the members of that full Council get what they get, work papers. Now the works paper is say from Health & Building. Well, you as a, you then sit and read that because you’re going to vote in the full, not then. So you even study that and the item’s going to come up whether we pull this building down. Well then you know it’s coming up and you’ve got your ideas what you’re going to do. So that becomes then where you determine the final policy decision. Now then you do that, that then is transferred to the appropriate bureaucrat. However, the Lord Mayor maintains his authority. He is, really in reality once Council stands up and walks out they in reality they don’t, doesn’t work like that because they’ve got no authority. The Lord Mayor is the authority and of course the Town Clerk, because it’s allocated to them.
Kirstin Bokor: So the Lord Mayor approves or…? In other words, something yeah, yeah, approved or does not approve recommendations made by…
Joseph Smith: No, no, no. Your full Council is authority when it’s in session, its authority, no argument about that. They decide.
Kirstin Bokor: Okay.
Joseph Smith: And remember I said early they delegated to me the authority for that industrial. Now that’s, I’ve never heard of that before or since.
Kirstin Bokor: Okay, now I understand.
Joseph Smith: But that happened, a unanimous vote to give me that and that’s, that’s unheard of, you know. But the Lord Mayor, when Council stands up and goes out he’s still authority, but he only has authority to work within the structure of our, our policy decisions.
Kirstin Bokor: Hm-mm. Oh, this is fantastic. Anything else we need?
Joseph Smith: I could, I could go on if you want me to.
Kirstin Bokor: Oh, go for it ’cause we don’t know what else you’ve got.
Joseph Smith: I’ll have to think. Um, well, Corrimal pool, the boat harbour.
Kirstin Bokor: What about any big, um, you mentioned one work stop protest, um…
Joseph Smith: Industrial action?
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah. Any other, seeing as you’ve got all the ALP history that happened, like I don’t know whether, ’cause from our understanding, we’ve had different responses. Someone was saying a lot of industrial action happened on site. So if it was a protest at the steelworks, everyone blockaded the steelworks. Or they took it down to Sydney and took it to Parliament house.
Joseph Smith: Oh no, industrial, no. No that, that see like for instance, the Committee are employees of the Council, they, that’s your staff and your outside staff. Well okay for instance you could have a, a dispute, say they want to impose the fees on the swimming pools, for example. That happened one time. I’ll tell you about that. I should tell you that one, but anyhow [unclear]. Well the pool staff don’t want it – ‘No, we don’t want it.’ Well they can have a dispute without involving the others, but they’re part of the organisation so they get their support if they need it. But they might say, well, we’re not going to open the pools for next six months. And the Council mm-mm so finally agree or disagree. So that’s how, that’s how industrial matters work. See I was, I was, I was in the Union secretary, I had, which was very good. As secretary I had thirty-two awards and industrial agreements under me, so you can imagine it wasn’t one thing, you had to deal whatever the case is, see. So that’s that’s everywhere now. As far as the Labor party and that you can still nothing to do with it.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: But you get disputes by, for some reason. They might disagree with a bloke, he’s a mongrel of a foreman or something, so they have trouble. Well next thing all their mates say, ‘No, we gotta we should be – you should sack him.’ Well, okay you’ve got a dispute. That, that’s how they come about. Like, ah, but you can be say a, a big shop like I was at Tallawarra, prominent in there, see. Well Tallawarra was very big and a lot of you know well. Well we had heaps of disputes, but I might be totally, I might be arguing about a scaffold or something. Well that doesn’t mean the boilermakers gotta get involved.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: They do their own problem. Now if it becomes very very big where like for instance your um, to include workers union and you’re going to blockade something, well you’re going to affect the working of the where they’re taking it, so they’re going to be affected in it. Well, what happens when it reaches that stage it’s a interfere, you know where the others involved because of the way it’s, the mechanics of it , well your Trades and Labor, the dispute committee within Labor Council it’s handed over to them to run the disputes. Well then they obviously are the authority because it’s broadened out, they’re, they’re, it’s having a bigger effect than what I do it. And I started. I was on the disputes committee Trades and Labor Council for a lot of years too.
Kirstin Bokor: Did they ever have, um, big stop work meetings or anything in the town hall?
Joseph Smith: Oh! Oh yeah.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah?
Joseph Smith: Yeah yeah. But I, like, like you always, like you get, say for instance what you again come back to when I said earlier, you’ve got to appreciate the climate. Not just the events but the climate. Now they seem to like with them, you know. ’60s, ’70s But those days the unions were pretty strong, you know. And the public were different, you know. Now they seem to be able to do what they like with them, you know. But those days you had a bit of bit of feeling about things, you know and the…
Darian Zam: What are you, sorry, I didn’t quite understand. People just don’t get together and care enough these days.
Joseph Smith: Well, how long, how long since, have you seen a big public meeting march down Crown Street?
Darian Zam: Oh.
Kirstin Bokor: Never seen one.
Joseph Smith: See. Well that’s your, well we used to have regular big meetings, big meetings.
Darian Zam: Right. People used to really take action if they felt passionate.
Joseph Smith: Involved. Yeah, yeah. When we finish I’ll tell you just one, you know, the tremendous one, it was seven weeks.
Darian Zam: That was the way people got things done.
Joseph Smith: Yeah. But we wouldn’t have got the pool if we hadn’t, ’cause what, what we did – shouldn’t be saying this I suppose – how we got Corrimal pool, we, I was on the committee for years and years [unclear]. And finally I said to the branch, I said, ‘Look I’m, I’m sick of it.’ I said, ‘We got to do something. We’re getting, we’re doing nowhere we’re getting nowhere.’ They said, and we really got on to it. We had big signs round the place, and Ford, Lord, ah, the Lord Mayor, the Mayor was Ernie Ford. Now, we signs, ‘Put Ford Last’. Big signs. Corrimal got a population of 12,000 and no swimming pool. We did all, huge campaign, see. Well consequently we changed the Council. It was an independent Council, but after that we were a Labor Party Council.
Kirstin Bokor: Okay.
Joseph Smith: Because we had, we campaigned that way. And that’s the only time I went in. I went in then and the Corrimal was built and so on and I went out. But so they were, they were that’s, and that’s how you operated though. You can’t sit on your backside, you had to fight for things you know. And, ah…
Darian Zam: Why do you think that people, do you think people, why do you think people are a bit more apathetic these days, the public.
Joseph Smith: Because they’re too busy. The man and the wife are working. When they get the weekend off there, that’s valuable for them, they won’t… And a lot of them are working with a telephone working 48-hour weeks and so on. And so these when you’re talking to them, they’re thinking most of the time, I gotta pay my mortgage or you know, the, these things were…But the big you know, and so because of surviving now they’re that, you know. You’re, you’re young people, I’m sure you know this you know you’ve been gradually sport pushed into a slot.
Kirstin Bokor: Mm. And I think people have to believe that their politicians are human beings of compassion. And I think…
Joseph Smith” And lost a lot of confidence [unclear]. Yeah, so you have a mortgage of about $300,000. I took a long time before I borrowed £1,200. I was sick worrying about £1,200. Now they’ve have $400,000-$500,000 and not bat an eyelid.
Kirstin Bokor: No.
Joseph Smith: But then you gotta pay for it. So you haven’t got time to go and have disputes or arguments, see. Ah, could I just show you, could I show as an example without and for your benefit…
Darian Zam: Do you think that the apathy of the public in some way contributed to the situation that we’ve come to with the Council these days?
Joseph Smith: Yes, yes. Lot of that. Ah, but also I think the Council is different. It’s like sort of, we did it for nothing. I was Deputy Lord Mayor and Chair another $500 a year.
Darian Zam: Just ’cause you were passionate about making change.
Joseph Smith: Yeah, $400 or $500 a year expenses.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah, for a lot of work.
Joseph Smith: Unclear.
Darian Zam: But no salary?
Joseph Smith: No, no. Now they getting $20,000 a year plus all the, we do own stamps and everything – we got nothing.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: Because and so you got people that were genuinely wanting to… Like I went in I’ll tell you straight now I went in to get Corrimal pool.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: That was the main issue. I did a lot of things after I was in there, but that was my my that’s why I went in.
Darian Zam: So it was a motivation for civic minded people wanting to make change.
Joseph Smith: Wanting to do something for the…yeah.
Darian Zam: Yeah, yeah. That’s interesting.
Joseph Smith: Well, that’s obvious, you know, that’s obvious. You’re, now there’s Council’s sacked like this sort of thing.
Darian Zam: So their motivations just. Yeah, could change your motivation probably contributed somewhat.
Joseph Smith: Yeah, well yeah. And, and when you got money you can, you can say righto, I get that I get $20 an hour, that’s not bad on top of me wages.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah. Both.
Joseph Smith: See, and if, and if you’re a real estate agent it’s a good pitch there, good situation, you know, but those days you had more of the ordinary people.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah. Somebody came in – can you remember the name of the gentleman that came into Corrimal – was it Beaton?
Darian Zam: With the Ambulance ball invitation?
Kirstin Bokor: No, oh, yes. And his father was the grandfather, or something was the Lord Mayor. And he brought that up about how many members of the Council were butchers. And…
Joseph Smith: Yeah, ordinary people.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah, and he said now they’re all real estate.
Joseph Smith: See they’re and, and, well lot of but, and that stands out doesn’t it?
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: We would, we wouldn’t have, like I wouldn’t have been real estate I was flat out bloomin’ you know, wouldn’t know anything about it. Like I to, well you just weren’t that type of people. Um, during Jerry’s Kelly he was for years, and an ordinary bloke see, ordinary bloke.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: And, ah, so I think that’s well I’m sure that, I’m not saying everyone in were genuine, you know, like there was a few that got in, you know, perhaps not so, but generally I’d say that was the big factor, you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Now someone told me – I hope I’ve got the details right, but during the whole Vietnam War protests, there’s something about a ship that I think was docked outside of Port Kembla or something called ‘The Desperate’. Does that ring a bell? And that there were protests about not letting this ship go to Vietnam. I suppose, I think I guess because of Whitlam coming in.
Joseph Smith: They probably. I was very opposed, the Vietnam war was terrible thing, you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: Yeah, well, let’s say that was. I still feel ashamed that we even went there you know. That’s my view you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Were there protests and stuff at the Town Hall like was that a meeting place?
Joseph Smith: Oh, wherever. Oh yeah, sometimes you’d go wherever, if you were say here, we’d, could come into the hall here, to try and, you know you demonstrated against it? You distinguish between and we had some marches, but a lot of them you just went wherever the thing was, you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: And, ah, very strong. But I can’t, I’m not, I gotta be honest, I can’t remember a particular boat like that. Probably was, but I just can’t remember it particularly. I can remember the Delfram dispute but that was before the war.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah, what was that about?
Joseph Smith: That was to stop ‘Pig Iron Bob’, you’ve heard the name Pig Iron Bob?
Kirstin Bokor: I have.
Darian Zam: Someone mentioned something about…
Joseph Smith: But that’s a long time ago.
Darian Zam: Yeah, someone mentioned it was about ’38 or something like that.
Joseph Smith: Somewhere in ’38-’39, yeah.
Darian Zam: Yeah. I’m not really sure what it’s about.
Joseph Smith: Well, it was about…
Darian Zam: But I was told to chase it up.
Joseph Smith: No, well what it was was, the Delfram dispute, the, they refused to load the pig iron for Japan.
Darian Zam: Yeah. Which was being made into bullets or something.
Darian Zam: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: Yeah, that was, yeah, 1938-39 something like that. In fact, one of the…
Darian Zam: So the bullets were for the troops to take to war, yet the bullets were being made in Japan?
Joseph Smith: Well, mightn’t have been, but it was just saying we don’t agree with, you know, helping the… Terms are coming back in that went out of date. You might hear the word fascism now, you might hear a word socialism, yet for about 20 years you never heard those words. But when I was young they were the words all the time.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: And that’s not…
Darian Zam: You’re a red! [laughs].
Joseph Smith: Yeah. Oh, well red or pink or or whatever, you know. But, but it was, ah, you know a, like the, you know, well that, that’s how it was. That’s how it was, see. And, and the Vietnam war we didn’t agree with it. A lot of blokes went to jail about it. Oh, no it’s that the world was different then.
Kirstin Bokor: Sure was.
Joseph Smith: I was going to tell you something about that – I forget – I was going to say something I forgot. I don’t know what else I can tell you.
Darian Zam: Did you ever hear any stories about what might have happened to the ‘one o’clock’ gun after it disappeared?
Joseph Smith: No.
Darian Zam: No?
Kirstin Bokor: Oh, this is Darian’s pet project. There’s another one of them down there. A two thousand kilograms or something. And people nicked it.
Darian Zam: They reckon it took six people to carry it away, so they don’t know how it just disappeared, but…
Joseph Smith: Yeah. I was, there was something else I was gonna tell you and I just forget now.
Kirstin Bokor: Let me think, I’ll see if I can… Okay, so we’ve got the pub protest. We’ve got the Council, Sports Council, got the pool, we’ve got the Park complex. The interesting thing about sporting complexes in the ’70s, I once did a history of Centennial Park in Sydney.
Joseph Smith: Oh yes.
Kirstin Bokor: And there was a huge move to turn Centennial Park into a massive sports complex, um, like Homebush. And it was just saved but before then there was a big idea to turn it into a massive museum mausoleum to bury prime ministers in.
Darian Zam: Right.
Kirstin Bokor: And, um, so there were heaps of protests, you know. So the venue of protest there always making sure government won’t build on it because it’s, you know, the only parkland in the city.
Joseph Smith: I know what I wanted to tell you, on the, ah, Beaton Park, well Beaton Park, later on, I can’t remember how many years, say, four years later. I can’t remember – a few years after. There was a function at the County Council, and they invited me back, you know. A lady who was a County Councillor, on the County Council of Cardiff and I asked her about it. She said, ‘Well we got eight of those now and the money we got off one, bought another and they had eight of them.’
Kirstin Bokor: Wow.
Joseph Smith: Yeah, well that’s what I wanted to do but when it got in I moved out they did serve was different. They’ve changed to what I wanted. I’m not winging about it, we still got something. Yeah yeah. But nobody else.
Joseph Smith: See, there’s things you could talk about the, I don’t know, swimming pools and all sorts of stuff but I don’t know.
Kirstin Bokor: Swimming pools – just out of my own personal interest, so lifeguards at swimming pools are they usually the same as a lifeguard in a surf club?
Joseph Smith: Yeah, they come out of the surf club because you’ve gotta have, have that background. Um, but this, this is something new to see that you take a surf. You did it. You did your patrols. You never got any money; you’re paid to boot. Now they got professionals there with blooming’ thing. We had a reel, um, reel and, and line, you had to be able to – now you have to bloomin’ thing you drive out you better person.
Kirstin Bokor: And they even have their own boat team now.
Joseph Smith: Then they’re got a physical test and all, you know, like different altogether, different altogether. I was a professional coach, over thiry years not I had six years out of it, but I was over twenty-five years, yeah.
Kirstin Bokor: Unreal. My Dad used to, and my Mum used to teach swimming, but they couldn’t teach me.
Joseph Smith: Where here, where down..?
Kirstin Bokor: Um, I think here for a little while, but mainly in Sydney. But, um, they were from Bulli originally.
Joseph Smith: Yeah. I first started teaching at Thirroul, you know.
Kirstin Bokor: I’ll have to ask them if you taught them.
Joseph Smith: But what was it you said someone, the, the Lord Mayor’s, you were saying someone you knew someone said the same thing about that.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah, ah, give me a second I’ll go and grab my other pad from… Yeah.
Joseph Smith: The world’s small you know. The other day, first time I’m doing this, these people asked me they’re going to write this book, you know. Anyhow.
Darian Zam: Where did you, did the letter come from Kirstin or from me ’cause I did a mail out.
Joseph Smith: You, you I think.
Darian Zam: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: I’ve got in my pocket.
Darian Zam: You were one of the contributors to the ’60 Stories’ book?
Joseph Smith: Yeah.
Darian Zam: Yeah. All right. That’s how it would have got…
Joseph Smith: Yeah, that was they made a mistake. I said the swimming – we, we the Council…
Darian Zam: Sounds like there were a couple of mistakes in that book.
Joseph Smith: Anyhow, whatever, visualise, just visualise in your mind the swimming pool see. The Council took over from, from you know, and they used to have Christmas they used to get about, anyway they used to have learn to swim, packs of them you know, so they’ve got all these people, kids, learning to swim, see. And it drizzly rain, so the kids are crying, and you know everything, and the sea’s washing in and it’s dirty you know. And they’re cranky with you know because they were going to show me how to do it and they’d made a mess of it. And what should float in – I said, they said a dead black snake. But it wasn’t it was a dead cat – black cat.
Darian Zam: Cat?
Joseph Smith: Black cat.
Darian Zam: Right.
Joseph Smith: Floated in on the water.
Darian Zam: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: And God strike me anyway you know. So anyhow someone must have got on to the newspapers. Now they blamed me, but I didn’t, someone must have rang and the newspapers came down see.
Darian Zam: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: And they went to come in and the Council took over running – not running a pool they had the staff, I wasn’t, I was just coaching … And they wouldn’t let the, the, the, ah, blokes in see. So that got their back up. So they went and they got these big photo of this bloomin’ cat floating around in the and put it on the bloomin’ front page.
Darian Zam: [laughs].
Joseph Smith: Well, that was ?? but they said it was a dead snake. It was a cat.
Darian Zam: Right, it wasn’t a – did you read that – do you remember reading that story, ’cause I read the one about the black snake floating into the pool during weather.
Joseph Smith: It was a dead cat, big cat. Yeah, they got realised what it was and people’s cranky and the kids cranky and wet and cold. Stinkin’ bloomin’…
Kirstin Bokor: Gotta be here somewhere, okay.
Darian Zam: Are you looking for [unclear]
Joseph Smith: I’d be interested in the bloke who said that you know the only Lord Mayors was Ernie Ford, he’s dead. Jack Power was the other Lord Mayor and he’s dead. Arkell was Lord Mayor, he’s dead.
Kirstin Bokor: ‘Cause we had a whole couple of days where we had we had a Ford, we had a…
Joseph Smith: Yeah well Ernie Ford. Ernie Ford was the first led ???
Kirstin Bokor: That’s right. And we spoke to Dickie Mitchell.
Joseph Smith: Mitchell was the first town clerk. He was town clerk for a long, long time.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: He was a nice bloke.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah, my parents knew him. He had peacocks in his garden and lots of kids. James Beaton, so the grandson. He, he brought in a 1935 invitation.
Joseph Smith: Gee whiz.
Kirstin Bokor: And, um, and he yeah he pointed out he said, look he was a butcher he was a; he was a plumber you know. And so he was the one who noticed there was a very different composition of people. But yeah, apparently, yeah I heard Mr Mitchell was a very hardworking man. He had all the kids around and he had heaps of kids and heaps of grandkids and he’d just sit there doing all the accounts for Council while they all played around his feet.
Joseph Smith: I don’t know if it would be anything to do with this but Albert Squire was a Mayor.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: And he, what happened in the ’50, second half, you’re talking about the dispute, now there was unemployment then. Building trade collapsed and there was a real, you know a lot of, a lot of unemployed.
Kirstin Bokor: Is that when something like 20,000 people lost their job in two weeks.
Joseph Smith: It was building trade was just really you know when, well when the building trade went the last see and, ah, [coughs] the union I was in, I mean we decided that if we can get the building trade going again the economy will go again. So the Trades and Labour Council in Sydney they moved that we start this huge campaign to try and get it going you know. And a bloke a schoolteacher and me from the Labour Council was appointed to cam-, be responsible for the campaign here. And we used to go to the hostels, there were hostels then you know.
Darian Zam: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: I got I would speak to them and so on telling them how to film itself. But then the big campaign was all over, you know. And it was to finish at the town hall in Sydney. And there was going to be the mayor of, ah, Newcastle do one session, Lord Mayor of Sydney one and Squires the Mayor here. And I remember I went to Albert Squires and, ah, I said and told him you know, and I remember his reply. He said, ‘Look Joe,’ he said ‘if it’s employment I’ll do whatever you ask.’ You know.
Kirstin Bokor: And he was, um, the mayor when they redeveloped the town hall into kind of what it looks like now. He, and he was…
Joseph Smith: I don’t know, I’m a bit vague about that, but you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah. In ’65 he was still Mayor.
Joseph Smith: I, I remember I was living in Bulli when, when, ah, the amalgamation took – not the amalgamation – when they decided to finish up .see they were silly bloomin’ old, these, you know, horse and cart to that, not the amount of money when they decided to finish up with out loud. They were still even know the you know what I did for some Kate Carson that you know will they changed to, ah, City of Wollongong, you know. And a lot, a lot of them opposed it you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah, they’re still opposing it. Apparently, um, a few years ago there was a group who took it, took legal action to see if there was any chance of succession from Wollongong, but there’s not because they’re financial…
Joseph Smith: No. But there used to be a committee every so often decide to amalgamate in New South Wales, you know, yeah, but that, that’s the way to do it, but then the people page, because they did. But I started to tell you, I started to tell you the small world. I said I was doing this thing at, um, the book they’re doing at Thirroul.
Darian Zam: Yeah yeah, yeah.
Joseph Smith: Well you wouldn’t believe it. I’m doing that and they had to come on the Saturday. So I, I know another one I want to know that these golf course, the golf course, so I must do that in our time. This golf course is a sore point, I’m really angry about it. Anyhow So I’ll get, there was a, when I moved that the golf course be built at, ah, Russell Vale I moved it and it was a big thing and the newspaper give us a big write up, you know. I got a lot of coverage of this terrific idea see. The tip was coming towards its end, and I always said make it into a golf course, see. I’ll tell you about that, we’ll have to use that, but that’s not what I was going to tell you. This thing so I thought I’ll come down to Wollongong and get a, get the cutting from the newspaper see. So yeah, so when we meet him one Saturday afternoon I can say well there’s what really happened see, ’cause there it is in black and white. They and out of the blue in the Library, I was chairman of the library for three years too. Yeah. But anyhow, I’m there and I’m doing this you know, the thing.
Darian Zam: Microfiche or..?
Joseph Smith: Yeah the microfiche, that’s right. Anyhow I think I saw something and oh, gee, that, because it was what, what happened something to do with me, I thought, I remember that. I’m trying to pool you know something about Michael. I know I asked a bloke next to me would he show me I didn’t hear any song that you would agree with me that nothing. He got you alright, oh yeah. He said, ‘Me father was a Councillor.’ I said, ‘Who was that?’ At it was Strachan who was at Bulli when I was at Bulli – it was his son when the decision to amalgamate. Yeah. Now that, what a bloomin’ coincidence told me and I was going to talk about on the server using anyone of Russia while. I don’t know whether you should put this in, but it’s bloomin’, I’m a bit cranky about it. Russell, what was happening as the Russell Vale tip was coming to an end. There was three of us, there was Max Graham and Fred Wood, we were three alderman. And we thought wouldn’t it be a terrific idea if we could have a greenbelt from the mountain down to the sea, you know. It was still available then we’d have that good strip from mine, right down to the main road and continue to the Pacific see. And this was our idea. Anyway, talk to baby and now and you know. And anyway, we hadn’t got going so we went. And, ah, anyhow, I don’t know whether you better put that in your muse, but it’s for your own, you know, information. This is for your information. So the Lord Mayor was working at South Bulli mine at the pit there, so that’s the mine there that are typical dumping their rubbish and so on. So anyhow, the Lord Mayor is working for them.
Kirstin Bokor: Is that the bit that kind of butts in near the, um, brickworks or..?
Joseph Smith: Oh, no. You’ve got the mine, like you go up Kirton, you know Bellambi, looking from Bellambi straight up that’s the mine, South Bulli.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: That’s South Bulli Mine.
Kirstin Bokor: Okay.
Joseph Smith: You come down from there a lot of the wastage of the ponds come down to the edge of the tip the tip where the, where the golf club is now. That was a tip there down from there to the road see. So they had that land up up there where the ponds were.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: And they thought well this will be good light industrial you know. Now I was on the Health and Building Committee, and I didn’t know that. Anyhow a bloke rang me up. and he said, ah, and he told me, he said, ‘They’re planning to this as being industrial, light industrial.’ Now I was on the Council on the Building Committee and the Lord Mayor was working at South Bulli, so he knew what was on.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: He knew what was on. So what I did I said how am I going to beat this. So what I did to the Aldermen I got up and moved that we, ‘I think we should make that into a golf course.’ And it went…
Kirstin Bokor: Everyone wants a golf course!
Joseph Smith: And, and, ah, that’s how it come about. And the bloke who, the Lord Mayor, who was working sample right. He got all the credit. And it was only this bloke rang me, it would have went through. They’re the things you had, so that perhaps a bit of news that… Kirstin Bokor You know what, we should have turned Sandon Point into a golf course.
Joseph Smith: Yeah, yeah.
Kirstin Bokor: If a golf course is that popular.
Joseph Smith: Yeah. I did, I lived at, ah, Bulli when, yeah, yeah, Sandon Point. It’s a stinking beach, I don’t know, it’s a lousy beach anyhow.
Kirstin Bokor: Oh, it’s my local beach. I love it.
Joseph Smith: But however, but that’s really what happened. And, and while what got me so annoyed when it was his funeral, it was he, he done it, it was his jewel of the Crown he… And I thought you mongrel he was the one gonna do it.
Kirstin Bokor: But you see when he goes to heaven he’s going to walk through that gate and they’re gonna go, ‘Uh-huh, turn around.’
Joseph Smith: No, that’s what…
Darian Zam: Left to the golf course and you’re going right to light industrial, where you…
Joseph Smith: So that’s what I was looking for that, that, ah, thing in the newspaper see. Kirstin Bokor Yeah.
Joseph Smith: But anyhow, when I did it, I said 1973 see look about, I didn’t know when it was about it. I’m not saying it was then you know. And the girl said oh well, yeah. So I got in there and I was there for an hour looking all through it and I said well I’ve done 1973. She said, ‘That’s only one month.’ God! I said I like that. that’s the end of that story.
Kirstin Bokor: It takes forever. I was doing some research of when they first developed Centennial Park in the 1800s, going through the old newspapers. They didn’t even actually print up the setup of the newspaper like they do now, so it wasn’t like big news front page, page 4, sport 5-9. It just was wherever the typesetter put it. So every single day and papers came out twice a day.
Joseph Smith: Gee whiz.
Kirstin Bokor: You had to go through every single column ’cause you couldn’t go, okay well I know the deaths are on page 13.
Joseph Smith: Yeah, well I had no idea. I thought ’73-’74 see and I got one month. Anyhow I hope I’ve helped you.
Kirstin Bokor: You have helped us so much.
Darian Zam: Do you think the ghost ever sat in on any meetings?
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah, do you know about the ghost?
Joseph Smith: The what?
Kirstin Bokor: Ghost.
Joseph Smith: What’s that mean?
Kirstin Bokor: Like it’s a scary ghost in the town hall. There’s a body underneath the town hall.
Joseph Smith: No, didn’t, I didn’t see it. We were nice people see.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Darian Zam: Is that the story where one of the toilet cubicles supposed to be…
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah. Because the toilet cubicle that’s got a presence, but it’s the ladies.
Joseph Smith: Yeah, well.
Kirstin Bokor: So I hope you don’t know about that.
Joseph Smith: Anyhow hope that was any help to you.
Kirstin Bokor: It was fantastic so…
Joseph Smith: But if you, because some might be, you know, and I don’t speak very well now.
Kirstin Bokor: No, it’s fantastic and what I’ll do is I’ll work on this over the next couple of weeks, do the checks, adding things that we need, and I’ll send a copy to you so you can have a look through and see what I…
Joseph Smith: See someone challenges some of the things you know because you’re falling in life.
Kirstin Bokor: People places, yeah
Joseph Smith: I did that. I did that. There was a friend of mine – Master Builders fish club had gone out of existence, so he was going out to Bellambi. And he was talking me other day at the bowling club, and he said, ‘Yeah,’ he said, ‘Bellambi got that boat harbour, you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Well Bellambi did get it, but someone worked for it.
Joseph Smith: They worked for it you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Darian Zam: Why did the building industry collapse in the ’50s. I didn’t catch that part.
Joseph Smith: What’s that?
Darian Zam: What brought it about, what was the collapse about in the area?
Joseph Smith: What in now?
Kirstin Bokor: In the ’50s.
Joseph Smith: How do you mean?
Darian Zam: You said you were going out to the hospitals and stuff to…
Joseph Smith: Oh well, well, well, what happened, no, well, the building trade collapsed, a lot of unemployment?
Darian Zam: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: Guys it’s either lost or you know migrant hostels.
Darian Zam: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: But I went other places too. But I’d go and I’d speak about the need for houses, and you know and generate support.
Darian Zam: So there were people that were willing to work.
Joseph Smith: Oh God yeah, they’d come, yeah, yeah. We’re not going away.
Darian Zam: But what went wrong in the first place that caused the problem?
Joseph Smith: Oh, the economy, I don’t know.
Darian Zam: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: Like this time see. No one can blame you know so this or that see I’m I’m strong now. I reckon this, this, our governments are stupid like. You’re getting a lot of history out of me!
Kirstin Bokor: Oh, it’s beautiful.
Joseph Smith: And see what they’re doing they’re giving money, $900 a day today, and they’re doing this see. It’s stupid in my opinion because there in, we’re in debt. They’re borrowing money galore from China. Now we got to pay it back.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: They’re gone. Now they went into that, the government went in with a chest full of money and they’re now talking about debts for the last next three years will be 100 billion – billion – gone mad. Now in, in the depression often, often thought I’d like to tell the story of the depression, what it was really, you know, the real side of it, not the baloney about…There was no work, no work. But Australia then was sort of a poor relation of England. England run us. The Bank of England run Australia.
Darian Zam: By the purse strings.
Joseph Smith: But the Bank of England it was…
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah, they got all the profit from the coal mining here.
Joseph Smith: Not only Australia, they dominated, you know, see.
Kirstin Bokor: The world.
Joseph Smith: Well in Aus-, when the depression hit here, down here they come out and I don’t mean it said they had to reduce things, you know. he was book Chairman, Bank of England. Well Lang see like he got in and he wanted to build, do something, and pay wages, those wages would come out and you know, And he, so he sent McKell, who later on became a Governor of Australia, he was the Treasurer of New South Wales, right. He went to England, to the Bank of England, and borrowed money to build the Sydney harbour bridge and Eastern suburb railway. Now the harbour bridge went ahead to Labor, but East Sydney started and stopped. They didn’t get enough money from him. But we had no money in Australia, so we had to borrow it from England. But this time we had a chest full of money and shouldn’t have borrowed from anyone.
Kirstin Bokor: No.
Joseph Smith: So we should have wait and then we could, well wind and bread for a pound and turn on the water and northern coast into inland Bradfield. Want that? That’s 1930 there. Now just imagine we diverting the Labor to do that. And when the depression finished if it would it is. We’ve got something to show for it.
Kirstin Bokor: Yeah.
Joseph Smith: Now the Sydney harbour bridge when the thing was finished we had something to show for it.
Kirstin Boko: r Yeah.
Joseph Smith: But what are you going to show after this lot?
Kirstin Bokor: Nothing.
Darian Zam: It’s that whole credit card mentality.
Joseph Smith: Yeah. See the hospitals are falling to pieces.
Kirstin Bokor: Aren’t they.
Joseph Smith: See. But they, they’re giving money like that’s my view anyhow.
Darian Zam: Fall down aren’t they? Yes,
Darian Zam: I see that he was finally going to get a full-time job and then they brought other people over from there and it’s not, less work, yeah.
Joseph Smith: So you know that’s what I think you know. So that comes back to what you said about the 1950s when we were when we got it going and when the building trade got going they estimated 37% of the economy come from the building trades, you know, because your, your fridge has gotta be put in and the babies come from there and all that stuff, you know.
Kirstin Bokor: Yep. Everything. And all the setups you know, even retail shops that sell furnishings for your home.
Joseph Smith: Well everything.
Kirstin Bokor: And
Joseph Smith: They reckon 37% Anyhow that’ll do you, ay?
Kirstin Bokor: Thank you and as I said, I’ll…