Interview Transcript from Illawarra Stories Wollongong City Libraries Oral History Project – Joyce Gormly

Interviewer: Edie Swift

Interview Date: 28 March 2017

Edie Swift:  Today is March 28th, and I am with – it’s 2017 – I’m with Joyce, uh Gormly at her home in Windang- Ey [laughs]- and uh New South Wales. She is a shack owner at Bulgo, a Shack community in the Royal National Park. I am Edie Swift, and the oral history project is Shacks in the Royal National Park. The interviews will go to the Wollongong City Local Studies Library at the Wollongong City Library and also the interviews will go to the New South Wales State Library. Um, Joyce Gormley, a shack owner at Bulga in the Royal National Park, will discuss her shacks and her earliest memories and maybe she can bring us up until the present and all the changes that went on- yeah- ’cause you remember. So, um if you’d like to tell me about from the very beginning. Well, what you remember.

Joyce Gormly:  We first went down there. we uh mum used to ca- uh take us by horse and cart from Helensburgh to walk we had to go down the hill and Dad used to take the- all the stuff down on the horse pack, you know. By the time we got there with all the kids and all the food and that, it took the poor old horse had to carry a couple of bags down for us and then, when we got there half the time we- we’d have to go to school. Well, I didn’t, because I was too young, but the other ones had to go to Otford School when the strikes were on. They’d go 3 months, 4 months, 6 months, sometimes- the strikes.

Edie Swift:  Now what strikes were these?

Joyce Gormly:  The- it’s the pit… down the pit- mm… hm.

Edie Swift:  In Helensburgh?

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah down Helensburgh- mm hmm- yeah they used to have, and that’s pr- practically where Mum- Mum- Mum done fishin’ and she also shot rabbits and Dad- Dad never done anything like that. All he was a builder and if anyone wanted things done for their shack, Dad used to do it. ‘Cause Dad, he never fished or never done anything. It was always Mum done the fishin’, shootin’, gettin’ rabbits or things like that, you know.

Edie Swift:  What were their names? – Uh Your parents’ names.

Joyce Gormly:  Emma, Emma my mother was Emma, and my father was Lionel.

Edie Swift:  And what- what was your date of birth?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh the 3rd of November 1930, yeah. Then the twins, the twins come before me. You know, we had always went to Bulga, because that’s the only way that Mum could keep us. You know, the food and all. She always shot rabbits or bloody fish. Always- on that big boulder, she was catching fish on that big boulder there for us, but yeah, we- we had a good time. We had fun. We used to play with the kids. We used to always have games down there. we never. Mum never you know we always used to have to play on the beach. Never to go up the hill, unless we were asked to go anywhere ’cause we were good kids. [laughs]

Edie Swift:  [laughs] Now, what was- when did the shack- when was the shack built?

Joyce Gormly:  Uh well, Dad’s shack was built ooh the shed was just a little old shack but, first of all, they they used to sh- have a little shack right over the hill, and then the bloody uh bad weather come and mom had to shift all the kids from one side the over near the c- cliff over there and fetch the kids over, otherwise one of them was dr- uh- one of them, years ago ,got killed over the hill. one of my brothers. He was about nineteen. He got killed over there, but.

Edie Swift:  What happened to him?

Joyce Gormly:  The hill- A rock fell down and hit him on the head. He was only nineteen.

Edie Swift:  So your father had the shack, uh and he did he build it?

Joyce Gormly:  He built an old bad? one first? -mm -they all did like over the hill and then from there on, they come across and they built the shack where the shack is today.

Edie Swift:  So, when did your father finish with that shack ooh which he built?

Joyce Gormly:  Well I wasn’t going to school, and he’d finished the shack then, but then.

Edie Swift:  And his old shack that he had, what happened to that?

Joyce Gormly:  Well, me niece ended up getting it ’cause we all had shacks, in the end, you know.

Edie Swift:  Wha- and what was her name?

Joyce Gormly:  uh, Sue, Sue, Sue Tweed. Oh, mm hm -Tweed. She’s still got the shack down there and she’s just done it all up and uh, we’d been doing our old shack up too, ’cause our shack to come from right up the hill. Me sister owned it. and she didn’t want to go down anymore ’cause they come from Sydney, and he didn’t like it. They’d had the shack. And Kevin and I just, more, or less, got married and so.

Edie Swift:  And what was her name?

Joyce Gormly:  Uh Mary, Mary Sinclair. -Mm hmm. -Yeah.

Edie Swift:  So uh, then you moved into Mary Sinclair’s shack?

Joyce Gormly:  We had to shift it from right up the greens to f- and they carried it down all by the one and put it up on the- and dad put it up on when dad pulled pieces of it down and that’s how we had the shack of the day.

Edie Swift:  Well, what year was that? Do you remember. Ooh look how old you were?

Joyce Gormly:  Well, I’d only just had a me first child, I think -Mm.

Edie Swift:  You know. But when you were a kid, what shack did you stay in?

Joyce Gormly:  -I stopped with uh.in me father’s shack, first.

Edie Swift:  Your father, in that shack until you were how- how old?

Joyce Gormly:  -Yeah. ‘TilI- ’till when me sister bloody when I got married, I think, I.

Edie Swift:  Oh, until then?

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah.

Edie Swift:  Until you were married?

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah.

Edie Swift:  What year was that?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh, nineteen?

Edie Swift:  And what would happen when you were a child? What other activities did you do?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh, we used to go fishin’, we used to go uh, up the hill to- for stuff for Dad to get bread and things, yeah.

Edie Swift:  Where would you buy bread?

Joyce Gormly:  We’d have to go down to Otford. You had to go down to Otford- up the hill and down to Otford. There was a little shop down at, uh- down at Otford. Otford?

Edie Swift:  Yeah -Oh, I see.

Joyce Gormly:  There used to be a little shop down there. Oh, mm hm We used to go shoppin’ -Mm -down there. Yeah there was a litt- uh- they used they used fetch the bread up the top of the hill for us. They’d leave it there for us, you know.

Edie Swift:  Was that where, um was that shop- where was it located? Was it right near the track or was it.

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah right up on the hill. Uh huh. Yeah. It wasn’t -There used to be.

Edie Swift:  Where the pie shop was?

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah, yeah, that’s where the pie shop.

Edie Swift:  Oh?

Joyce Gormly:  Was, an old lady had that -Mm hm -and she used to get the bread and that and deliver it up the top for us -Mm hm -for Mum and ’em and all. The -Mm hm -? ones that are? down the beach -Mm hmm – and that’s where they end up.

Edie Swift:  What was her name?

Joyce Gormly:  Uh, Mrs Oliver, I think. -Oh, mm hm -Oliver it was, yeah. She was a nice old lady. Yeah, they used to give us a lot of things, you know. Other than that, we. I never went to school ’cause I was too little, but all the other ones had to go to Otford school. Dad made ’em go up to there. That’s a long way to go. -Yeah, well still, they liked it, they you know, and uh

Edie Swift:  Did they walk all the way?

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah they had to walk.

Edie Swift:  Or did someone bring them?

Joyce Gormly:  No, they had to walk up the hill. -Mm. Oh, there was always an older one with them. -Oh -Yeah.

Edie Swift:  Where was the school at Otford, then?

Joyce Gormly:  Uh, just as you go down the hill, -Oh -they used- not far. Uh, oh halfway down the big hill, I think there was a school, a school there.

Edie Swift:  Was there the railroad there?

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah, the railway -Mm -was there, but the station was a bit far away from the school. Yeah, there used to be a lot of Otford School kids go there too, but a lot from Bulgo used to go there, too.

Edie Swift:  Do you remember some of when you were a child- some other families that you remember down there?

Joyce Gormly:  Well, there was the Woods’s, the Collins’s, the Woods’s, the Collins’s, and uh oh, Woods’s and Collins’s and, there was a lot of people -Mm -you know, that we were brought up with.

Edie Swift:  Did they have communal things that they did, the whole community?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh yes, we used to play cards or housie or something like that. They used to always have housie on the grass for the kids to play a penny- a penny a go or something like that, you know. -Mm -They used to penny, penny, or something. A lady used to always have a housie set for us. The kids- the kids only- had- didn’t have to pay much to play- to play you know, but.

Edie Swift And how about Christmas, what went on there?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh, they always had a Christmas tree for kids down there. It’s always got something for the kids. Mm hm? Always Christmas lollies or g- or went and got em’ something for- to- you know, for ’cause they’re all kid all the kids were bloody uh all loved sweets, so they only had to go and get some nice lollies and things uh for ’em.

Edie Swift:  Did they have Santa Claus come?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh yeah, always had Santa Claus for ’em, yeah. Yeah, yeah always Santa Clause. Santa Claus come in the boat one- once [laughs]

Edie Swift:  Did they use a lot of boats down there.
Joyce Gormly Oh yeah

Edie Swift:  Or was it kinda.

Joyce Gormly:  Well now, well there’s a lot of boats there now, but years ago, there’s only about three or four boats. But they used to use ’em, too. Some of the men used to go out in the fishin’, ’cause Dad never went fishin’ and when they come in they all had about three or four lots. And one for the the beach. You know, ones that didn’t have boats, or bloody they got one for the beach. Gave the beach one of- a fish each- a couple of fish each, you know, out the- which was good, ’cause they done all the fishin’, and they used most of ’em used to take their fish home, you know. We took ’em in our belly [laughs].

Edie Swift:  And how did you cook ’em?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh Mum cooked ’em every, all the time. Either fried or baked or Mum always…

Edie Swift:  You didn’t have an oven in your shack?

Joyce Gormly:  No, no.

Edie Swift:  When you were a kid.

Joyce Gormly:  But they, they had a kind of a little uh little thing you could put on the on the open gr- grate Dad made something that you could put in, but no, we always had f- fried fish or baked something like that.

Edie Swift:  Do you remember when your uh, the mountain came down or -Oh no -there was some problem?

Joyce Gormly:  Not really -Oh -Not really. I was only what two I think -Oh uh huh -Yeah.

Edie Swift:  And as you got older did you go uh let’s say you were six or seven did you start going to school then?

Joyce Gormly:  Ah well, we started going back to Helensburgh -Oh mm hm -and then we went from Helensburgh, and every weekend we used to get into trouble with the all the nuns for not going to church ’cause we [laughing] used to always go to the beach for the weekend, you know -Oh mm hmm -’cause that’s all- Dad used to always take us down in the horse and cart.

Edie Swift:  So where did you live at Helensburgh?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh we lived right at uh right in the uh- Dad- Dad owned a place there and uh, his father owned this place and that’s where we lived all our lives in the big- big open paddock and the bloody, you know. It was a big yard.

Edie Swift:  Do you remember the address?

Joyce Gormly:  Uh yeah, 10 Roberts… 10..10 Helens… 10 Club Lane. Our home, home… 10 Club Lane, Helensburgh. We always lived there.

Edie Swift:  So as you got older, then you started living in Helensburgh.

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah. During the week. Yeah and? only co? went on the weekend. Yeah, always with the horse and cart. Yeah.

Edie Swift:  Until you were how old?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh, well I was five, I had to walk [laughs] -Oh [laughs] -But mostly the poor old horse got the, you know, the loads. It was only the little ones that sat in the cart to save the horse ’cause he had too much stuff to take down, you know for us.

Edie Swift:  And you all had to take packs?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh yeah, we always took packs. and take all the stuff down? And the poor old horse used to have couple of bags chucked over its back for us to.

Edie Swift:  But he- you couldn’t take the horse down to the.

Joyce Gormly:  Oh yeah.

Edie Swift:  You could?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh, in those days? They all took their horses down.

Edie Swift:  Oh, I see. That was a great help.

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah, I think I think our old horse died half-way up the hill. Oh. Yeah we wasn’t very happy about it.

Edie Swift:  So, as you got older into your eleven and twelve years, how did things change in the shack and what did the shack look like?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh well, we had used to have four kind of a bunks. You know a little bunk we when there was a crowd come down, we used to have to sleep at you know, that didn’t worry us, cause the older ones they went to work, and they only come down weekends or something like that the older ones. But they all end up gettin’ their own shacks down there, too, in the long run. Me sisters and all them. They all got their own shacks down there, so, you know it just went on for family and family, you know. Everybody the Collins’s had all their shacks and we always we was always down, down the beach with Mr Collins. He was always there with his daughter and son. But the other ones the older ones didn’t seem to come down with their father much. I think he was a bit cranky with ’em. (laughs) But.

Edie Swift:  So, did you have a garden down there?

Joyce Gormly:  A garden? A garden. Oh, Dad used to. Yeah, Mum used to.

Edie Swift:  And what would you grow in there?

Joyce Gormly:  Well, you weren’t allowed to grow much, but they used to go up the bush and put, plant tomatoes and things like that, but you weren’t allowed to. Mr Collins used to have one up in the – right up in the bush before National Park took it over. and all that. But then you weren’t allowed to have gardens, down at Bulga, you know.

Edie Swift:  And I’ve heard it called Borgo and I’ve heard it called Bulga. So, what is
the correct name?

Joyce Gormly:  I don’t know. It’s always been Bulga. Oh? Ah, ha It’s always been Bulga.

Edie Swift:  The And so, what happened when you got to be twelve and thirteen? You did you go to school, and did you stop at the? inaudible? Oh, we stopped at Helensburgh and go to work go to school. Demmy, Demmy went to work at the old factory, though.

Edie Swift:  What was the factory?

Joyce Gormly:  They had – it was for – Oh, shh – a King Gee factory, it was. They ended up making so, we done our life there and I got married and.

Edie Swift:  So what did you when you were like 12 and 13, were there changes in the shack community?
Joyce Gormly Yeah well, we were we were I left school at fourteen ’cause Mum and Dad, Dad was sick, and Mum hurt herself.

Edie Swift:  Now, what year would that be?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh, dear, I was fourteen. Ok huh, huh. And so, they they let me leave school and one day, I went up the up the road to get some bread ‘n’ that and someone said someone got killed down at Bulga I said: ‘Oh!’ So, I went home and told Dad and Mum. Mum. Dad got the cart- cart out to see who it was. It was our Uncle Jack. He went out – coming in a boat and a mother, a daughter and the -Katie, she had a -. always a cripple and she always walked down the beach or got a horse down and she was, they were tryin’ to get her father in it off the boat, but he hit his head. The only one she didn’t save was her father, you know. So, they had to carry him up the hill. Dad picked him up on the horse and cart up the top.

Edie Swift:  What was the um sha- what did the shack look like?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh, we always had a nice shack. Always had beds and big. We used to have a great big table, because there used to be that many bloody kids. No matter who comes.

Edie Swift:  You always did, but when did you stop having the horse and cart?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh, I was only young we always had a horse and cart. We always had a – an old horse in the yard and the cart. We always had that.

Edie Swift:  But when you got older, you didn’t have the horse and cart?

Joyce Gormly:  No, no well, the horse died and we just all went our own way, you know. And most of ’em got? killed? The older ones got married a little shack down Bulga. That’s how I got mine was down there, too, you know.

Edie Swift:  So you worked at the factory when you were fourteen?

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah fourteen.

Edie Swift:  And then how did you, after that you kept going down. What was it like at fourteen was it?

Joyce Gormly:  We had good times. When we weren’t down the beach we was down the gully anyhow. So, we were was always in the gully.

Joyce Gormly:  About seven or eight of us. You know, we didn’t go down the beach. We always down the gully.

Edie Swift:  And were there life savers down there?

Joyce Gormly:  Savers? But they had. Oh yeah, only the men that, you know used to keep an eye on the beach. Any sharks out or things like that, you know no, we never had life savers down there.

Edie Swift:  And did you swim down there a lot?

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah, we always swum I think we learned to swim good, you know for our age. And then

Edie Swift:  As you got as you got older, um, how did things change? How did you meet your husband?

Joyce Gormly:  I met him, where did I? At Eura, I think. For the weekend. He was the lifesaver out there. Come back and I said: ‘Well, I’m not going to you (inaudible). He lived a couple years at Bulga. (inaudible) That’s how we got this the shack from me sister.

Edie Swift:  How old were you then?

Joyce Gormly:  I was about eighteen.

Edie Swift:  And what was your husband’s name?

Joyce Gormly:  Kevin. Kevin.

Edie Swift:  And his last name?

Joyce Gormly:  Kevin Gormly.

Edie Swift:  And where did you get married, then?

Joyce Gormly:  Catholic Church. Yes, he was very strict. He lost his mother when he was young and this. these nurses took him brought him up and then We got married and then worked at Garawarra for a long while. He worked at Garawarra in a hospital out there for a long while. He had a few jobs but, Garawarra he used to take a lot of stuff into Sydney for Garawarra.

Edie Swift:  And where did you find. Where did you settle with him?

Joyce Gormly:  At, um – at Bulga?

Edie Swift:  Did you have your own shack then?

Joyce Gormly:  No, not till later years, me sister gave me my shack.

Edie Swift:  And how old were you then?

Joyce Gormly:  Oh… about twenty-four – twenty-four – twenty-five. Oh? something like that.

Edie Swift:  And what was that shack like and where was it?

Joyce Gormly:  Ah, it was right up on the hill. She used it. She had it done out lovely because she only got married and she bought this house this shack but, my old shack today. (Crash!) We got a new one. It’s got a, We got a big one now. Too big. I’d rather have the little one. Uh, huh? Yeah but it’s still there anyhow. We still got it so.

Edie Swift:  And what did that shack look like and how did you did you have to.

Joyce Gormly:  Oh, it was a nice little shack.

Edie Swift:  Prepare it? Did you have to bring things down from the top in order to.

Joyce Gormly:  Yeah, we had to fetch everything from the hill. They carried it across the… Dad was there waiting for them to fetch the part of it back. They put it; it was straight up ‘n’ we slept in our shack that night. (laughs) Yeah, it didn’t take ’em long to do.