Interview Transcript from Illawarra Stories Wollongong City Libraries Oral History Project – Matthew Black
Interviewer: Jennifer Macey
Interview date: Unknown
Jennifer: Can you say your name, and what band you’re in, um, just to introduce us and where you’re from?
Matthew: Yeah, my name is Matthew Black, I’m ah, I’m from the western suburbs of Sydney, Parramatta, and I’m from a, ah, a band that played here at the Illawarra Folk Festival – I think it was last year – we’re called the Bottlers, yes.
Jennifer: What sort of music?
Matthew: Sorta, I guess it’s, um, I guess it’s what the banner they put under, it’s – it’s folk punk, so it’s sort of like folk music, but with a bit more of, a bit more of a kick in the behind. I’m, I’m part of a group called the Bush Music Club, and um, you know, just friendly, like older-sort of retired blokes, sort of knock-around fellows, you can, you can tell a, a blue joke with and, you know, they’re, they’re sort of almost, my, ah, – I say this respectfully – my many yodas, you know. [Laughter] They, they, um, they fill my mind with all this, ah, older information, and I, I guess I interpret it in my own way, you know.
Jennifer: So, um, and what, and what, ah, instrument do you play?
Matthew: Ah, I play, I play enough guitar to write stuff, but, I, I don’t know. Either, either there’s some part of my subconscious where I’m like, not confident enough to chuck the old, sling the old guitar on, on stage, or just there’s some part in the back of my mind that says, “If you, if you play guitar, you’re gonna have to carry a guitar with you everywhere.” So I kind of um, yeah, I write ’em, I write kind of like the, the clatter bag of them all, and then I hand them off to eight other people, and it sort of goes through the mill, and, you know, it , it turns out a song! So yeah, I’m…
Jennifer: So you’re the composer?
Matthew: Oh, yeah and the singer as well as, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, it’s either with a voice like this, it’s either, you know, sound like you smoked more of Dad’s durries, or maybe sing a folk song or two. I don’t, I don’t think I’d make it in the pop techno world for some reason [laughs].
Jennifer: So tell me about your involvement with the Illawarra Folk Festival.
Matthew: Um, well, first and foremost I just, I was, I grew up in a family where we had Irish folk music. I, my father coming home at 3 AM and playing Irish folk music at the top of his lungs or singing at the top of his lungs. And um, yeah, and then I just sort of, I, I was always growing up, I was looking for music that equated to me. And I guess, you know, growing up where I did, it was sort of like um, you know you wanted to, I, I guess you wanted music that you could speak to and it spoke back to you. And um, so one day I was just doing, doing the old Googling, and I, um, found the Bush Music Club. And, um, I thought, okay Australian folk music, I don’t know much about it maybe beyond square dances in primary school or something like that. So, um, I went along and it then it all kind of flourished from there, you know. A bit of support from them and a few ideas from me and basically, yeah, a, a band sort of bubbled up from the cauldron, you know. It’s, you kind of forget how these things happen, but somehow they happen, you know.
Jennifer: But so has music been part of your life, like did you study music or Learn it, or have you just sort of fallen into it?
Matthew: Um, there was, there was always singing in my house. Um, I, I grew up listening to like punk rock music and, um, just, just any – good tunes are good tunes as far as I’m concerned. That’s what I love about it here, the fact that it’s such a, a mixed bag of different people. And then once you add a bit of, a bit of whiskey to that equation, then, you know, you get people from Balkan countries playing with Australian musicians playing with, just people that would never mix and match together, you know, it, they do, but, you know, just in regular allotted CD racks, you know. So um, yeah, so…
Jennifer: It does feel like that, doesn’t it? Like when you have a look at the program, what you wander around the stages, there is always, you know in some of, within bands, they’re mixing up the genres, and…
Matthew: Yeah, I mean I, I think with us we’re sort of, um, we, we do, I mean you can’t help but live in the world without breathing in its many and varied, you know, cognitive particles. So, you know, when we put music together it takes influences from everywhere. But I guess when they want to slap a sticker on it, if CD’s still exist, they want, they want some sort of moniker to, ah, to, to call it by. But, um, I don’t know, I just, I just I, I come from the old adage, hopefully it translates but, you write best when you write about what you know. And um, I don’t know, it took me awhile to I, I went through jazz music and I went through singing that kind of stuff and, I don’t know, it was always a bit too Americanised and I was surrounded by all this American music. And, um, I don’t know, I mean, you know, I, I, I can honestly say I, I, you know, growing up, I never really saw the rural enths or anything like that so, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s probably not much Banjo Paterson about me. I’m not, I’m not saying some.
Jennifer: ?inaudible?
Matthew: Yeah, I know, there’s definitely, I’ve got a beard, I don’t know if any of them had a beard. I think beards were invented in the early ’80s, I’m not sure. Um, but yeah, I don’t know, like, as far as the Lawson approach to things, where it used to talk about, he was a bloke, kind of from, he was born in the goldfields and then he went to the city and he spent most of his time there. So I mean, I guess I like to look at things from a sylvan and, ah, provincial aspect, but from the city, you know. I’m like, I’m a city slicker and but still I appreciate, I appreciate trees. Apparently, you know, apparently they, they give you that stuff that makes, that helps you breathe. So you may as well write a song about them, you know.
Jennifer: Um, and so what’s it like performing here?
Matthew: Um, it’s really good, I, I love it. It’s um, er this is the first year, I’m I’m here with the Bush Music Club this year, but this is the first year where I don’t have to get up on stage and be a, be a human, force it through my forehead. I get up on stage and I guess I hit it pretty hard. So I, I, you know, I, I sweat like Johnny B. Goode, you know. But this, it’s nice this year, I’m more part of the, ah, the petri dish, more part of the collective. But it’s, um, as far as playing here it’s great. The people are great. Um, unfortunately there’s, I think there’s, there’s laws creeping in on the State in New South Wales that, you know, festivals are really bearing against them. But, um, I think, I think the people here are smart, smart enough and savvy enough and been around for long enough to be able to sort of like, you know, fend, fend off the slings and arrows. And I think that’s what I like about the festival, um, the fact that it’s not just about, I mean, obviously you have to make money to keep afloat and put food in your mouth, but there’s, there’s a soul that sort of permeates it. And it’s almost like as, you know, I, I drive back to Sydney soon and, um, there’s almost like a bit of a disparity in my heart. It’s like ***** excuse me. Ah, Sydney’s, Sydney’s nice, but it’s, um, it’s not this, you know. If that’s not too simplistic a way to explain it, you know.
Jennifer: Well, how would you make the comparison between playing at a festival and playing at a pub. Like, what is it, is it the, the difference in the audience, is it that, that community feel that you get here, like how, like, yeah, how do you put your finger on it? What, what does make this one different?
Matthew: Well pub, pub, pub’s it’s like the, the terminology. I mean for myself, um, I can’t speak for the rest of the musicians, maybe I can from my perspective, but it’s, it’s a real Tavern singing experience where there’s a different energy. Like, um, we’re, being called the Bottlers, you know, you kinda come with a bit of a, ah, a predetermined, ah, you know, beer tap glimmer in the distance. And people, you know, they expect to hear our music and they probably expect to throw a few, um, few screwies down. Um, here, there’s less of that on us, you know, there’s more of a, I think because people, would, we’re not going into a crowd that listens to a variance of music beyond folk, that the fact that I guess people keen in on it quicker here, you know. It’s almost like when you go to a pub, it’s like, it’s, it’s like being a cowboy and walking into a new town and it’s like, you know, you hear the whistle on the breeze and it’s like, we’ve got to prove ourselves here, you know, blokes and ladies. Um, but here there’s more of like people are just, they’re, and I say this respectfully, they’re like, um, they’re like some sort of band of cartoon characters, just ready to, ready to leap up and be joyful. And I’m like, Oh my God, I’m not used to this, this is amazing, you know, it’s like going to some sort of alternate, alternate dimension, you know, and, and in a really positive, wonderful sense. Like, oh, I, I write about really kind of dark stuff. I can’t help it, it’s like, just the way I sort of, um, the the way I, I, I take the things I see and try and translate them into positivity. And, um, but here, like I’m not used to it. What, hey, like you, you know I’ll, I’ll nudge one of my band members and I go, “What are they doing?” “Oh, Matthew they’re smiling.” And I’m like, “Oohhhh.” They don’t do that in Sydney. Oh, there you go, you know. So that’s, that’s what I like about here as well, you know. And yeah, I guess, I guess it’s the, the fact that there’s, um, you, you don’t really get that in society it seems anymore. There’s a real, um, separation between generations. But here it’s all about, um, you know, trickling down information and, and changing it and transmogrifying it and making it a, and, and not only renewing it for its, itself, but renewing it for the people that listen to it. And, um, like folk music in my, in my destination is, is about like, you know, it’s, it’s taking positivity and it’s about taking truth and it’s about taking you know, factual down to earth things and sort of presenting it to people and going, reminding them what they truly are. You know, like I think, I mean there’s, there’s good things to be found in plenty of genres of music, but, um, folk tends to, that the honest for folk is the fact that it sort of does like its texture. It does like a little bit of dirt underneath the fingernails as well as, especially in Australia, you know.
Jennifer: And, and, and, ’cause you’re talking about the intergenerational thing. It feels like there was this really established folk cohort, like an older folky cohort, but you are part of the younger generation, I’m guessing. And, um, So it feels like, yeah, so I guess, can you speak to that? But also, what you mentioned earlier about how you, you draw from the older generations, but you also have, it feels like to have to made it your own.
Matthew: I, I think it’s almost like a, if this makes any sense, like a reverent irreverence. Like especially with Australian folk music and more so with Australian bush music, which, you know, I kind of cut my teeth on. And, um, basically if you, if you come, if you come in with a happy demeanour and sort of like an open presence and, you know, that, that’s all these people want to do, they want to, they want to pass on this, this information, they want to pass on this like, ah, you know, Sorcerer’s Code of sorts, you know, And it’s, I, I feel very, I feel very privileged to be a part of that, you know. And it’s, um, yeah, it’s, it’s a haughty responsibility, but it’s a, it’s a happy responsibility, you know. So it’s um, it’s yeah, it’s just, it’s good to be a part of something that wants to be pure but wants to bastardise itself as well, in a good old fashion larrikin sense of the term, you know.
Jennifer: Oh, you’re emotional!
Matthew: Yeah, I don’t know, I do, maybe it’s ’cause I drank a few too many whiskeys last night. But, yeah, no, it’s, it’s just good to be a part of that, you know. It’s ah, I think in this world we kind of get, we get a lot of, um, yeah, we get a lot of, you know, we got a lot of crap sort of sent our way especially Sydney seems to be a real centrifuge for it at the moment and even the festival’s experiencing it. But, you know, it kind of, it does give you a nice little, um, gossamer tap on the shoulder to be able to know that there’s something, you know, not, not being some white knight about it, but there’s still something pure and good and true that you can pull out of the ether. And, you know, the I think with, with people seeing bushfires on the TV and seeing, you know, psychopaths in power there’s, um, you know, it still gives people a heartening outlook and an approach. And I think one of the main things about being downtrodden about people is not being reminded that, there’s, there’s still good things, and there’s still hope about, you know. And this is, this kind of place is all about that, you know.
Jennifer: Community.
Matthew: Yeah, yeah. And we, we do live in communities. But not, this almost like brings us back to something a little bit, um, a little bit primeval, you know, like, you know, if you, if you, if you’re sleeping in a tent across from the bloke who’s snoring, from me, it’s definitely primeval. [laughs] But, um, yeah, it’s good and bad, but it’s…
Jennifer: Next time you’ll have to come and billet with me.
Matthew: I mean, you know, as, as much as I love doing backstroke in my tent, um, yeah I’m, I’m not that aquatic, you know [laughs].
Jennifer: ?inaudible? Um, so just, is there anything else that you’d like to tell me about your music? Like, what you’ve talked about, you’ve drawn from some of the traditions, like Henry Lawson and that, but you mentioned…
Matthew: Oh, I guess, um, yeah, like I like to draw from the old, the old poets. I guess the, the um, the bawdier the better, like in regards to like, you know, that, that Australian larrikin feel, you know. Yeah, I, I, you know, don’t, don’t want to put a, a cheap plug out there, but I’ll put a cheap plug out there. Um, we just recorded an album, it’s called, ah, ‘Advanced Australia Fear’, and it’s sort of, um, it’s, it’s strange, it’s sort of dropping just as all these things are happening. And, I mean, you know I’m not the, I’m not necessarily the, the be all and end all trumpet of truth. But, you know, I’m, I’m not shy of saying things and neither, neither is anyone else in the band. And, um, yeah, kind of what we’re putting together is a bit of a, a clatter bag of talking about the serious things, but, you know, half of it, you gotta kind of laugh at yourself as well and realise that the, the, the true path to empowering humanity is sort of, sort of pulling the, you know, pulling the thread out of yourself as well a bit, you know. And yeah, I, I guess in regards to the song writing, um, I’ve been going around with my little scrap of paper throughout the festival and talking to people. And, you know, there, there might be a, an older fella, you know, say, say some phrase that’s only been passed on through, you know, verbal information that I’ll scribble down on the parchment and, you know, it’s that, that might make it to a song, you know. So Yeah, I, I don’t know, I, it’s, it’s, it’s, I just, I just chuck it in the box and shake it around and if it all connects together then it’s a good thing, you know.
Jennifer: So music, so I’m back to that old adage, or cliche, ‘music brings us together’, [laughs] like…
Matthew: Yeah, oh, um, except for Morris dancers! No [Jennifer laughs] no, no, they’re great, they’re all right, that’s all right. No, no, [laughs] sorry Morris dancers, it’s a bit, spin-out Larrikinism I was talking about. Um, yeah, no, um, it does, yeah. It’s like ah, like last night, um, I don’t know, I kind of, I kind of tend to be a bit of, a bit of a solo wanderer but, you know, like at folk festivals, um, I kind of like, as much as, you know, put a, put a drink in my hand and a microphone in the other hand, you won’t stop me talking. But I get in a crowd like this I think subconsciously I become more an absorber of people. And, um, yeah, the question was about the collectivity of music was it? Um, yeah, last night I was talking to some bloke from, I don’t know someplace I couldn’t, I couldn’t pronounce, it was probably Penrith. Um [chuckles] oh look at that, there you go. The power of sobriety compels. Um, and yeah, I was talking to some other people from Tasmania. We’re going there later this year. It’s, it’s almost like this, this magical, um, Tolkien place at the at the bottom of, bottom of our map that I’m looking forward to, so. And there were people, they were even talking about it out loud and you don’t get that much it seems where they were making a concerted effort. They’re going, okay, this bloke plays music from this dot on the map and way over the other side of the globe, this person plays music. I need to get the instrument out and play this. I’m more of a bit of an orator and a bit of a, I like writing poetry and songs. So you know, I, I clatter enough guitar, but not to, not to swing it with the big boys and girls out there. But it’s, you know, I guess someone has to be the, the quiet chronicler, you know. Someone has to write a song about it here and there. And, um, yeah, that was just, that was amazing. Like I, I, I’m more, at the Illawarra Folk Festival, sort of sit back and sort of just bask in the halo of it, you know, and just sort of, you know, that’s another heartening part of it. The fact that I, you know, I, that coming from coming from, coming from Sydney, you know, you get a collectivity. But people are so busy working and paying rent and, you know, wondering can I, can I drink my schooner here, can I smoke my cigarette here, can I, can I sit here, excuse me officer, which way would you like me to pass wind. And it’s, um, here, it’s different, it’s, um, that’s, that’s part of the collectivity as well. You’re giving people an organic sort of cool little crystalline pool to swim around in, you know. And, um, that, that, that I, that I really love about this as well, you know. I can, I think me and everybody else can get very, um, caught up and go, “Oh, it’s, you know what, I’ll, I’ll binge watch The Witcher and I’ll order some Uber eats and I’ll, I’ll close my blinds and I won’t get out.” And I, like the, the Bush Music Club invited me along to this. And there was this little dark Jiminy Cricket in the back of my mind going, “Oh, you know what, Matthew could be constructive here and you can, you could sit at home and, and basically do bugger all.” But it, you know, not get out of your comfort zone. So as far as the collectivity goes as well, if anyone’s, anyone’s listening to this, I, I highly recommend you get out to the Illawarra, Illa-, look at there’s a lisp from last night, the Illawharra Folk Feshtival, um, the Illawarra Folk Festival or any other festival. And, um, you know, I think part of shaking off all these rules and regulations that are being overtly, um, bound, bound onto us, um, get out and shake your humanity, you know. Like there was, there was certainly a few people shaking their humanity out in the front of the stage last night, you know. [Jennifer laughs] Maybe a bit too much.
Jennifer: Did you, um, so was last year your first year or..?
Matthew: Oh, no. About, I think maybe about, um, six years ago. And when I, when I , when I first came to the Illawarra Folk Festival I was like, this is really great, I want to start a band. And this is one of, this is sort of the, the the seed that turned into the sapling that, um, you know, gave me the perspective to go, well I can look at these people that, you know, they’re very talented. I, I can write a sentence here and there, maybe I can give something a go. And I think if it wasn’t for the support of say like people you meet just sitting down, even talking to yourself at Illawarra or, um, the people from the Bush Music Club or just, you know someone who just sort of twinkles in from the, from the outskirts and just sparks up a conversation, I wouldn’t be doing music, you know. So and you know I, I came from a, I came from a musical family, but no one in my family’s ever really besides, you know, doing the whole Tavern singing thing, really kind of brought music together. So this was a real this, this was a real boot up the, boot up the hindquarters in regards to just give me, give me the confidence and the, um, the, the scope to go, well maybe I can give this a go as well, you know. So, yeah.
Jennifer: It feels, it feels approachable, doesn’t it?
Matthew: Yeah, yeah, I mean I’m…
Jennifer: And what is your – sorry what, what, has your, has your Dad seen you play now?
Matthew: No, he’s, ah, he, he went to the bigger, he, he went to the, the big, ah, bar room in the sky. But it’s, um, no, my Ma before she passed away, um, she was sick at the time, but she got to see, um, my second ever gig and that was by some, um, amazing wonderful sweep of fate was at the big stage at the St Patrick’s Day parade in Sydney. And, you know, like my Ma, I wasn’t too well at the time and, you know, I don’t know if my Ma hadn’t seen me play like that I reckon I’d be, um, I, I don’t know, I’d feel like I hadn’t, I, I’d feel like I’d really missed out on something, you know. So, um, yeah, that was the important thing for me. And the St Patrick’s Day parade was really always important to like, you know, members of my family. And that was kind of like the, the jewel in the crown, you know. And, um, I’ll be that, I’ll be at that jewel tarnished after 6 PM. But it’s, um, [laughs] yeah, and I think that was, um, that was, that was a really good thing to, you know. So, I mean I went, and we’re playing it again, um, this year. And I’m, I’m still spun out by it, you know the fact that something can go from a raggedy old notebook and, you know, obviously, you know, I’m not the only, you know, bean in the pod. But, um, you know, from my perspective, you know, and then be playing stuff that you’ve, you’ve kind of like been in awe of as a child, you know, it’s sort of, yeah. And I think as, as far as that passing down of information goes like, you know, there’s always that adage that the older people are passing it down to younger people, but there’s, there’s multi, there’s levels of generations, you know. And I, I don’t know, I just I just hope that one day someone might listen to what I do and do the same, you know, pass it on, you know pass the baton. So yeah, I mean that’s, it’s, it’s talking like this I don’t, you know, when I go to a festival I’m pretty quiet. I’m sort of the, you know, the just the Pleasant Observer. But, um, it’s, it’s good to be able to talk to you as well and just sort of defrag and and just sort of realise that, you know, what I would, what I would have missed out on if I stayed at home, and, you know, played through, you know, Red Dead Redemption 2 for the 14th time, you know.
Jennifer: I don’t know what that means, but yeah [laughs].
Matthew: Yeah, it’s, um, oh, it’s, and it’s got, it’s got cowboys and stuff, so it’s not, it’s not too different from the Illawarra Folk Festival.
Jennifer: Can you say video game.
Matthew: Video game.
Jennifer: Okay, so is there anything I’ve missed? Did you want to say a comparison between this and other festivals? Or are you happy with how you’ve described it?
Matthew: I think just every festival is there like people, everyone has a different story and everyone has a different outlook and you know better small festival or a big festival. It’s like there’s different tangents you can get out of everything. And I don’t know, I think, I don’t know, I reckon we should all get out, head out and see some music. All right.
Jennifer: Thank you.
Matthew: All right, thank you.