Interview Transcript from Illawarra Stories Wollongong City Libraries Oral History Project – Richard Davis
Interviewer Name: Stuart Traynor
Interview date: 12 May 2022
The following interview was conducted with Richard Davis as part of the Wollongong City Council’s Illawarra Stories oral history project. It took place at the City Library on 12th of May 2022. The interviewer is Stuart Traynor.
Stuart Traynor: Well, Richard, thanks for giving me your time. I really appreciate it. You were born and bred in the Gong?
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah. Born at, ah, Wollongong Hospital on the 6th of the 10th, 1959. And, ah, grew up at Coomaditchie at, ah, Kemblawarra there.
Stuart Traynor: So as a baby your parents were living at Coomaditchie?
Richard Davis: Yeah, that’s prior to the, the houses that were built there in the late ’60s, ah, early ’60s, sorry. Um, yeah, me Mum and Dad were, ah, living in a car body at the time with a lot of other families, Aboriginal families there. And, ah, they were instrumental in working with other Aboriginal elders in the community and establishing the Illawarra Aboriginal Advancement League and with the, the Trades and Labor Council, ah, Mr Fred Moore, and a lot of other people and, yeah, we got them, or me Mum and Dad with the support of the, the unions and that, they got the houses built there.
Stuart Traynor: Now I grew up in Wollongong before going away to the Northern Territory for forty years and I lived in, um, Housing Commission place in Fairy Meadow so and the family was not, weren’t poor, coal miners son. But the whole concept of, of people being forced to live in, in a place like Coomaditchie, I don’t think people appreciate that and, and how that could be the case. So what are your memories of that? Because you were there for thirteen years, weren’t you?
Richard Davis: Yeah. Yeah. I lived at there till, ah, I was about probably thirteen, I think it was and then we moved to Dapto. But growing up there, I sort of remember when I was a bit, I don’t remember the car, living in the car body ’cause I think I was only about two or three-year old and then, ah, we, the house. But I remember growing up at Coomaditchie with all the other Aboriginal kids and they attended Koona-, ah, Kemblawarra Public School and, ah, yeah, they were great times, you know, we all used to get on together and go to the beach every weekend and you know swim and go to the pool and we; we were even on first name basis with the lifeguards over at the, the pool.
Stuart Traynor: So, so how many families would have lived at Coomaditchie then?
Richard Davis: Oh, when I was there, there was six houses, so six families. But I think there was other families living there too, you know, with, with family. Yeah. And that so yeah it could have been, you know, ten-twelve families.
Stuart Traynor: Um, and do you look back at them as good times? You said you…
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, look, I, I passed my time there at the, at, ah, I’m so proud of it, growing up at Coomaditchie because I’m an Aboriginal person and, you know, me Mum and Dad always said be proud of who you are and where you come from. And I’ve always carried that through in my life. I’ve installed that into my kids, um, because if you’re not proud of who you are and where you come from, well, you’re disrespecting your past elders.
Stuart Traynor: So your parents were Bobby and Mary.
Richard Davis: Mary. yeah, that’s right.
Stuart Traynor: What sort of people were they? Were they were from this area or were they..?
Richard Davis: No. Well me Dad’s a Yuin man from the Moruya area.
Stuart Traynor: From down the track.
Richard Davis: Down, down Moruya. Yeah. And me Mum’s a Gumbaynggirr-Bundjalung woman from the North Coast.
Stuart Traynor: From the North Coast.
Richard Davis: Born at, ah, Casino.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Lived most of her life at, ah, Nambucca Heads.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: So, ah, yeah. But me and my brother and sisters, ah, we were born here. So we’re, I suppose, Dharawal, yeah, Dharawal people.
Stuart Traynor: Did people speak any language in those days?
Richard Davis: Oh, back in the day, look I, I can’t remember mate, um, but it probably would have been a little, little bits. I mean we’re starting to resurrect a bit of it now, which is passed through Welcome to Countries and stuff like that, so. It’s, it’s been good, um,, but yeah, back in the day now, I mean unfortunately Aboriginal people were, you know, not allowed to do that, not allowed to speak their own language, unfortunately. And, um, and it was wasn’t the thing to be doing, you know, so that’s why it’s so hard that, ah, you know, we don’t understand the language.
Stuart Traynor: So how did your Dad, a Yuin man, come to be living up here?
Richard Davis: Oh well, he, ah, I think he had an uncle, Uncle Lou Durham, um, that lived up and he was working on the wharfs. And me Dad and his brother, Uncle Teddy Davis, they, ah, moved up this way to get work.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: And they ended up getting work at the the waterside workers at, as a wharfie.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Over at the, the steelworks there. And, ah, me Dad was there for about 17 years and me Uncle worked there for about 34 years, I think, Uncle Ted. So they were, they were wharfies and then that’s when they become involved with the trade union movement with, ah, Uncle Fred Moore and, you know, the union movement and the houses and it all become part of that. So it’s, I suppose it’s, um, you know, sort of in Aboriginal culture now that that’s that’s part of where Aboriginal housing, you know, out there and started from. And the Illawarra Aboriginal Corporation, which is operating today, you know, a big organisation.
Stuart Traynor: And you’re the chairman of that.
Richard Davis: I am the chair at the moment, um, and I’m proud to be part of the chair of the IAC because my Mum was chair for 21 years.
Stuart Traynor: So, ah, right. So she was chairman of it.
Richard Davis: Yeah. And she was chair for 21 years. And, um, you know, she had a lot of support, you know, the elders there support Aunty Dolly Henry and Aunty, Olga Booth and Aunty Linda Davis and Aunty Glady Douglas. So, you know, she had a lot of support there back in the day and then recently, you know, Dorothy Tangier there was a lot of people. Rhonda Cruse.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Um, a lot of people. You know, Faye Allen, there’s a lot of people that were, you know, you, you, you could mention a lot of people’s names that were part of it and, you know, make it what it is, so…
Stuart Traynor: It’s good that you’re actually mentioning these names because I think it’s important in the local history records that people are not forgotten. And just by having a, a mention a name is a beginning to those stories being told.
Richard Davis: Yeah, I know me Mum was, she was sort of like at the forefront being the, the spokesman, but, ah, she couldn’t have done it without all of them other people’s support and help. So, you know.
Stuart Traynor: She was obviously a strong woman. Tell me a bit about her.
Richard Davis: Yeah. Oh, look she was a strong woman, she, um, yeah, she had her times where she wasn’t so strong, um, you know, and you know, drank a little bit and that. And no, I don’t my, ah, I don’t mean to be disrespect me mother, I would never do that. But just for a strong woman to what she went through and then to come through to be the woman that she, she was. So it gives me strength and, and, um, makes me so proud that she did that. And me Dad as well. But my dad sort of fell away and continued to do what he did and unfortunately. But look, he was still my father, still proud of what he achieved and me Mum was, yeah, a very strong woman and if she wanted something, you know, um, she’d knock on doors and, you know, tell people well look I want service for my Aboriginal people. We want this, we want this. And even some of the politicians, you know, were scared of her. I remember Bob Carr coming down once.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: And oh, [unclear], yeah. I’m after you, mate. I’m after you. I’m gonna. So, oh…
Stuart Traynor: Um, I, I know from my own family experience, um, where alcohol comes into the picture and obviously living in the Northern Territory for forty years alcohol is usually a symptom of something else that’s going on in life. And I think you’ve got a whole judgment, haven’t you, that, that the people do have times when they need a bit of support in that it’s not necessarily you look at the reasons there. So, ah, your Mum’s from the North Coast?
Richard Davis: Yeah?
Stuart Traynor: So how did she come to live here? And where did she meet your Dad?
Richard Davis: Oh, look, it’s a big story, but me Mum was, ah, she was from the Stolen Generation. She, ah, lived up at, ah, as I said, at Nambucca Heads but unfortunate for Mum and Dad, I think. I’m not really sure, but her Mum and Dad split and, um, I think her Mum might have passed away.
Stuart Traynor: At what age was she taken?
Richard Davis: Oh, she would have been taken when she was about probably twelve or thirteen I suppose.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: And then she went and lived with family out at Cabbage Tree Island up there next to Ballina. And then, um, yeah, they she ended up getting taken away because I don’t know wasn’t getting looked after, I suppose. And then into the Stolen Generation and she ended up, ah, in Sydney working at Vaucluse and, and places like that as a maid.
Stuart Traynor: I’m familiar with the Bomaderry Children’s home, but where was she actually taken to? Somewhere on the North Coast was it?
Richard Davis: Yeah. I don’t, yeah, she, she went to Cabbage Tree. She lived with the family there. But I, I think then that’s when she was taken away again. And I think she was brought down to Sydney. I don’t think she was taken into a home. I just know she was brought to Sydney to work in a, as a maid in a, in a, um, hotel. Yeah. Ah, at them big rich people’s places, looking after kids and…
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: Cleaning houses and all that stuff.
Stuart Traynor: And certainly in the Northern Territory experience, kids being taken at the age of four, which is unbelievably cruel. But by fourteen, as you say with your Mum, they were being put into work.
Richard Davis: Yes, yes.
Stuart Traynor: Often in domestic and things of that nature, blokes on stations and things.
Richard Davis: Working for nothing, you know, like didn’t get the right pay and all that stuff. And then years later they, she ended up claiming some of that in in a thing and wouldn’t, wasn’t even worth claiming because just the way it was. Um, so, yeah, it wasn’t very good. So I, I, I sort of class myself as a lucky bloke, you know, like com-, compared to what my Mum and Dad and…
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: And their parents and all that went through. I been luck, so lucky that, ah, you know, they supported me and give me a roof over my head when I was growing up, so.
Stuart Traynor: So you’re the oldest of the children?
Richard Davis: No. Me Mum had a, a, a kid before she come down this way. So she fell pregnant up there when she was about probably seventeen-eighteen. I think or something like that. Um, and I think me sister Leslie, um, she was put with, ah, the Aboriginal families at Cabbage Tree and then me Mum come down this way so yeah. So I’m, I’m the second eldest, me sister Leslie, and then there’s me brother Robert and, ah, then there was little Joe, unfortunately he passed away when he was a baby and then me sister Celina.
Stuart Traynor: So your Dad’s working on the wharves?
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: I was gonna say, how did they get by in those days? But he’s obviously got steady employment.
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah. Well, as I said, he worked there for about 17 years, um, and as me uncle worked there for about thirty-four years, Uncle Teddy.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Um, so, look, work was fine at the time, but I suppose as long as you turn up to work, you went to work.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: It doesn’t matter what you did, who you were, where you come from and look discrimination probably did play a part in a lot of things back in the day and yes, ah, unfortunately a little bit of it’s still around, you know. Um, but I think back in the day, you know, me Dad worked and yeah he had a few jobs and I think when he left the water he had, he was a truck driver, worked at South Coast Equipment as a truckie. So he done a few jobs, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: And, and self-respect from being able to support his family and, ah…
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: On his own two feet, that’s obviously important.
Richard Davis: Then we, ah, then we moved from Coomaditchie to Dapto in, um, ’71, I think it was, late ’71.
Stuart Traynor: So how old were you then – you were about twelve or thirteen?
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah, I think I was probably thirteen because I was going into second year at high school, so I’ve done that.
Stuart Traynor: Okay let’s go back a bit. So you had primary school at Kemblawarra?
Richard Davis: Kemblawarra.
Stuart Traynor: What’s your memories of that? What was it like there?
Richard Davis: Oh, great like growing up multicultural, you know, Kemblawarra as you can gather, you know, all different eth-, ethnicities, ah, cultures there and, ah…
Stuart Traynor: Yeah, I know what you mean. And I actually, having, um, grown up in Wollongong myself, even though I left here at the age of eighteen and then came back in 2013, I cherished that multicultural stuff.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: The tolerance that was there, there were still hard attitudes, but there was also a tolerance. So as a young Aboriginal bloke, did you, um, feel accepted or did you..?
Richard Davis: Oh look at the time, ah, I felt fine. I, I didn’t really get to the stage of feeling different until probably high school, middle of high school, the last couple of years of high school. Um, at primary school kids are kids.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: They don’t know any different. They just know that, oh, Richard’s my mate. Well, you know, Pedro’s my mate. Like there’s no you know, kids are, are, are, I’m not, you know, blind to the, the colours and the different cultures. So it’s when you say, I, I personally believe when you say in high school and you know about fourteen-fifteen year old then things change, you know, attitudes people, maybe parents you know saying Oh well look you know you should be careful hanging around these sort, these people and blah blah blah. So yeah but when you’re a kid I think, ah, you know, I didn’t feel any at school but maybe some other people did, but I grew up and played sport and all that stuff. So..
Stuart Traynor: I, I think Wollongong was under a dramatic growth curve, wasn’t it, in terms of ethnicity?
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: We could call it.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: And, and yeah, different foods, different cultures, you know, with all European migration and I can’t help but feel we probably all benefited from having a, an open mind.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: And more so than might have been the case growing up here in the ’30s or the ’20s and…
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: So what precipitated the move out of Coomaditchie? I presume better housing, was a Housing Commission house..?
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah. Housing Commission at Koonawarra, yeah, yeah. I think it was that, ah, better housing me Mum and Dad, you know, thought you know, they’ve done the time at Coomaditchie there, got a house and the kids that were growing up a little bit, so I suppose they wanted to move on and, you know, try, and get us a bit of a start in life.
Stuart Traynor: So they were happy about that move?
Richard Davis: Yeah, I think so, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: Because I know that whole Hill 60 and Coomaditchie, there’s a little bit of, um, ah, you know, when the army took over in the war and people have sort of been pushed around and yeah, but they were happy to move on to a…
Richard Davis: I think so, yeah. They were happy to move on, um, you know, in hindsight it would have been good if you stood your ground and stayed there but it’s, you know, life moves, moves on and time moves forward and all that stuff so yeah. So we, we moved out there and I thought it was, I think it was a good move because, ah, you know, I played sport, as I said, you know, I played soccer and all that stuff and rugby league. So yeah, it was good. But I did that at Coomaditchie as well because I played soccer with the local Port Kembla team when I was a young boy and Warrawong and all that stuff. So yeah, sports been a big part of our life as well.
Stuart Traynor: So what sort of things apart from obviously the, the work stuff and I gather sounds like, um, active involvement in the unions and things, but what sort of things did your Mum and Dad engage in in those years when you were growing up?
Richard Davis: Oh look, um, me Mum and Dad engaged in, um, you know, they loved their gardens. They used to have their garden at the front of their place, ah, looking, you know, pretty good. And I remember you know Sunday afternoon and Dad’d do the, you know, the lawns and look after his garden. Mum’d come out and hose them and all that stuff. So yeah, there was good times over at Coomaditchie and that. Um, but look, there was also some, you know, not so good times, as I mentioned earlier, that alcohol and all that stuff, but that’s a learning curve, you know, you grow up and, ah, I think it’s made me a stronger person to be with my three daughters, you know, not to be go down that path of, you know, drinking and all that.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: And don’t get me wrong, I like a beer, but you know, there’s a time and limit and all that stuff, so.
Stuart Traynor: So your Mum and Dad certainly seemed to have emerged as, as leaders within that community, though.
Richard Davis: Well, they did, well, especially me Mum. Yeah, yeah. Um, me Dad was too, but like I said, he sort of kept doing what he was doing.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah, your Mum was the strength.
Richard Davis: But she kept going and, and I think the biggest thing that she had was the support from, ah, you know, them elders that I was talking about earlier. And, um, and being part of the Illawarra Aboriginal Corporation, which actually started from Coomaditchie.
Stuart Traynor: That was gonna be my next question. Tell me how that that’s got going and, ah..?
Richard Davis: Well that started like I said, I grew up there and, ah, Mr Fred Moore and the Union and me Mum and Dad and Aunty Dolly and Aunty Olga and Aunty, you know, Linda and Aunty Glad Douglas, um, met at Coomaditchie. They had meetings there about what the next step is in doing and, you know, about Aboriginal culture and that, so…
Stuart Traynor: This would have been maybe late ’60s, was it?
Richard Davis: Yeah, late ’60s.
Stuart Traynor: She’d left in ’71 hadn’t she?
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it was the late ’60s, yeah. Yeah, that’s right, we were only young. But I was remembering they’d have the, you know, the meetings at Mum and Dad’s place or Aunty Dolly’s place and um, up at the, the hall, the tennis hall there and, um, yeah, remember all that. So.
Stuart Traynor: Now Fred Moore’s not an Aboriginal bloke, but he’s pretty respected.
Richard Davis: No, no.
Stuart Traynor: He’s highly respected.
Richard Davis: Oh, look mate. Yeah, he’s a very respected man in our community, um, you know. He’s, he’s a bloke that’s sort of fought tooth and nail for our, I suppose oh, I suppose, I don’t know if there’s a big word existence I suppose, in this area, um, because there was the time there that they were looking to move all the Aboriginal people from this area out to West.
Stuart Traynor: Ah, where to, what was that about?
Richard Davis: Dubbo I think.
Stuart Traynor: Really.
Richard Davis: Some…
Stuart Traynor: You’re joking.
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah, they were looking to move the Aboriginal people from this area. Wonder why?
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: It was all the land.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: And this is what they did with a lot of Aboriginal people, you know, so you can understand why Aboriginal people do have a bit of animosity.
Stuart Traynor: Oh, well, I mean…
Richard Davis: In, in, in, like, I mean, you said you went to Alice Springs, so imagine them people out there.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: The things that they’ve had to go through, you know, pushed off their land and you know. The government’s making money out of it. you know. Ah, see when you start talking, I mean, it, it, it can get you thinking.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Yeah. So yeah. So we were lucky in a way. We didn’t get moved, we stayed, we stood our ground, or the elders stood their ground and Coomaditchie’s still there.
Stuart Traynor: It, It’s one thing to have a move from Hill 60 to Coomaditchie or maybe to Koonawarra, but the, the, the very thought that you would try and transplant people to, to the West.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: Really shows little, I mean, it’s a bit staggering now that we take for granted people’s connection to country and, and respect for culture.
Richard Davis: Well that’s why there’s a lot of, um, you see a lot of Aboriginal people blueing with each other because they’re different cultures. Even though they’re the same people, different areas, you know. And then, there, there’s conflict, you know, like, oh, ‘You’re not from this area. You’re not from that area.’ And, and that’s what the government’s done, you know, they’ve got Ab-, Aboriginal people like this.
Stuart Traynor: So was your Mum the first chairperson of the Corporation or..?
Richard Davis: Um, no, I don’t think she was the first. I, I couldn’t tell you the first one.
Stuart Traynor: But she was certainly active early on.
Richard Davis: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She was active at the beginning, yeah, yeah. I, I couldn’t tell you who was. Um, me Dad was the first housing officer.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Ah, for the Illawarra Aboriginal Corporation back in the late ’70s or maybe late mid ’70s, late ’70s, I think something like that.
Stuart Traynor: Okay. So what does that mean, he’s the housing officer? What was being done with, to get people into housing?
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Aboriginal people.
Stuart Traynor: Was the government allocating housing for Aboriginal people and he working with them or how did it work?
Richard Davis: Well, I, look, I’ll be honest with you, I don’t really know, but I know, um, that they were looking at, um, supplying houses the government to the Ab-, Aboriginal Corporation houses for house-to-house Aboriginal people. And I think that’s how it was going to be. I could be wrong, but I, I’m not sure. Um, so, yeah. That’s would have I think would have happened.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah. Now, so you leave high school and, ah, you worked for BHP for a while, I gather.
Richard Davis: Yeah. Well, before that I had a couple of little jobs, you know. And I’ll be honest with you, I, I was a motivated person because I had a lot of non-Aboriginal friends and you know that I went to school with my class and we’re still close to this day, you know, great mates. And we meet up once a year in, um, at Dapto Leagues before Chri-, the first Wednesday before Christmas and we still do, been doing it for nearly 30 years now. And, ah, all of them blokes, you know, they’re all educated people, you know, one was a big person with the BHP and one bloke owned his own business and you know, a couple of them are accountants and all that. They still class me as Richard, you know, their mate – colour doesn’t come into it. They know who I am, I know who they are. So yeah, growing up in Dapto was pretty good. Um, and, um, yeah, a few jobs. Ah, I actually worked at Jewels supermarket, just cleaning up, collecting trolleys. I mean, the reason why I say this, I’m proud of that because it’s made me a stronger person. Um, and like I said, I remember where I come from, who I am. And if you don’t do that, then you’re sort of disrespecting yourself and your family, um, so, you know, cleaning up. I was a tradesman at the steelworks, just carrying the tool bag for a, a fitter, cleaning the jobs and going getting what he needed to do the job, you know. So for me it’s, it’s made me a, a better person, made me to respect and understand that there’s a responsibility in doing what you gotta do, looking after your family. So you know like I said, ah, any job, done tyre fitting, you know, did that for about a year, two years. So yeah.
Stuart Traynor: And certainly…
Richard Davis: I didn’t sort of sit around and where you see a lot of young fellows this day and age that…
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: And you go to yourself, you know, well there’s jobs out there if they wanna have a go. Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: It’s, it’s certainly an issue I know having lived in remote part of Australia for, for as long as I did, um, that for young, a lot of young people the, the job opportunities are few and far between.
Richard Davis: Yeah yeah. I’m not saying it was easy, I mean.
Stuart Traynor: But yeah. And I know, um, how much dignity comes from being able to be self-sufficient.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: And…
Richard Davis: But I think it’s, it’s what you’ve got in your own self. It’s what you want to achieve if you wanna this and look when I talk I talk on myself and my, my, um, my thinking and if you’re gonna let people put you down and have a go at you and all that well, and you let them do that, then that’s what they’re gonna do to you. But if you be a strong person, it doesn’t matter who they are, you stand up for yourself and have a go and, and respect yourself, then these people will go, geez, well, this person’s a strong person, I’m not gonna muck around with him or her. So it’s about yourself. It’s what you want in life.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah. When I first went to the Territory in the ’70s, um, I got to know a, an Aboriginal bloke who was a real mentor to me and unfortunately he died in 1980, he had a, an unusual, quite an unusual disease.
Richard Davis: Oh, right.
Stuart Traynor: But, but he was a big mentor in my life and, um, I’m a white bloke, he’s a black fellow, but the colour was irrelevant. I admired him as a person and…
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: Ah, he was a good influence on me and it’s not a, you know, a year goes by I don’t often think of him.
Richard Davis: Oh, right.
Stuart Traynor: And I think that that having people in your life who you, you can’t respect and, and really admire is important.
Richard Davis: Yeah. Oh sorry. Yeah. Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: Now, um, so you worked, ah, at BHP for how many years?
Richard Davis: Eleven and a half years.
Stuart Traynor: Which is a pretty – what sort of work were you doing?
Richard Davis: Oh, just labouring.
Stuart Traynor: At what? Tradesman.
Richard Davis: Tradesman assistant. Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: What fitting?
Richard Davis: Fitting, yeah. For a fitter, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: And you enjoyed that?
Richard Davis: Oh, yeah. Like I said, ah, it was a job. Responsibilities, I was, I got married it, um, me and the wife bought a house, ah, we got married and we bought a house out at Albion Park. It’s still there, in the same place, thirty-six years, I think it is. Um, three daughters.
Stuart Traynor: What was BHP like as a company?
Richard Davis: Yeah, they were pretty good like, but look, I, I think everywhere there’s issues you know with racism and that and I copped a bit at work at the steelworks because I was the only Aboriginal person where I was working. I don’t think there was any other Aboriginal people. There might have been a couple around but very far and few between. Um, but I just got on with it. I was young. I, I, see if people were having a go sometimes I didn’t even realise it, it just went over my head because I was a young bloke and I just wanted to work and live life and yeah, yeah, but…
Stuart Traynor: And what led, what led to your getting into the work that you’ve had in, in training for…
Richard Davis: Well…
Stuart Traynor: ‘Cause you’ve been in that for twenty odd years.
Richard Davis: Thirty one years I’ve been at ITEC.
Stuart Traynor: Tell me what the job is there?
Richard Davis: Well, um, the jobs I, I’m, I started off as an NCAP officer. That’s a New Careers for Aboriginal People in employment. I did that for about a year. And then the Aboriginal business advisory position, come, come available and you know, the work said, look, this job’s coming available, would you be interested applying for it? And I said, Oh yeah, I don’t know because I don’t have any experience in that. And they were looking for an Aboriginal person to do it. As you can see I, I don’t mind talking [laughs]. And, um, so I said yeah, I’ll put me hat in ring and applied for it and went in for the interview. And at the time I was doing shift work at the steelworks and I didn’t like it shift work like going in start 3:20 I think we started at the steelworks and didn’t like it so had the interview went home and, ah, I was just about to go to, go to work, you know, I think it was about probably ten to three, quarter to three just about to leave the gate, phone rang – ‘Ah, Richard Davis, you know, you, you come in for that interview, for the position, blah, blah, blah.’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ She said, ‘Would you like it?’ I said,
Stuart Traynor: Too right.
Richard Davis: And I’m going like this on the phone with my wife. She’s looking at me going and I’m going like that. So I ended up getting the job and yeah.
Stuart Traynor: So what’s does this involve in a day-to-day there, what, what sort of people are you working with and..?
Richard Davis: Aboriginal people that want to go into business.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah. Young people or..?
Richard Davis: Any age, any age.
Stuart Traynor: Setting up businesses.
Richard Davis: Setting out of business or just want to know what business is about or training or…
Stuart Traynor: And is there a lot of support in the NSW system for that?
Richard Davis: Oh, there is. It’s getting better. I mean, yeah, there is a lot of support there for, ah, well, I think anyone that wants to go, whether you’re black, green, or whatever colour, but Aboriginal people, there’s a bit of support there, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: So what are some of the sort of business enterprises that you’d help people get into?
Richard Davis: Oh, look, mate, there’s a few, civil construction, ah, bush tucker.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Ah, geez, always, it always puts me off some when I think, you know.
Stuart Traynor: No, that’s okay.
Richard Davis: Art and craft.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Aboriginal tourisms. Oh look, oh, there’s heaps, heaps.
Stuart Traynor: Thirty one years is a long time in a job. What, what is it that gives you that drive to keep on going? What’s, ah, obviously there’s clearly satisfaction in the work or …
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah. Oh, look it’s satisfaction working with my people, helping my people and they, they you know, achieve their goals in wanting to go into business and I get satisfaction in seeing that.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: When I see an Aboriginal person going into business and you know, even if I can do a little bit to support them, um, it’s great to see that they’re, they’re moving forward and showcasing that their ability, ah, given the opportunities that they can be just as good as anyone if they’ve, they’ve got the the opportunities.
Stuart Traynor: Is, is there a sense of hope within, um, the Aboriginal community in the Illawarra that it’s positive future for people or do people get demoralised at times?
Richard Davis: Yeah, look. Oh, look, I think, um, Aboriginal people I think it’s a funny question, that one, because personally I think I can see things, good things happening. Um, and I’m not saying it’s always good, but there, there is good things happening. We could be a bit better. I think, um, Aboriginal people in general, I think they’re, um, op-, optimistic in the future. So I think down the track and, and, and the way I look at it too is we need to be part of change, not wait for change to happen, but as an Aboriginal community we need to be on the front foot too.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: In, in working with non-Aboriginal people and making changes that are gonna benefit Aboriginal people in the future. So we need to make sure that we step up and, and, and be counted and, ah, you know have a voice in, as our past elders did.
Stuart Traynor: Yep. And clearly, um, your Mum in particular was an inspiration to you and that’s sort of, ah… Is she still around?
Richard Davis: No, unfortunately Mum passed away in 2007 and, ah, yeah, I think, I think it was one of the biggest funerals that Illawarra’s ever seen, mate like you know we had police inspectors, ah, politicians, ah, Council workers, oh, there was, I think someone said there was probably about 2,500-3000 people.
Stuart Traynor: And your Dad?
Richard Davis: Yeah, he had a big funeral, not as big as Mum, but he had a big funeral, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: And what year did he pass away?
Richard Davis: Oh, that’s a good one.
Stuart Traynor: 2007 for her.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: He went before her or after?
Richard Davis: No, no, he went after me Mum. I think it might have been ’15.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: I think it might have been ’15, mate. Yeah, I’m not really sure, but, but yeah, yeah, and we’ve, um, me Mum and Dad are buried together side by side, and we’re pretty proud of that too, um, you know, they’re at the same place and when we go to visit, we visit both of them at the same time. So yeah, it sounds like a, it doesn’t, it sounds like, um, well, a big deal, but, well, it is a big deal for me and my family because we know they’re together.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: We know where they are.
Stuart Traynor: So where did you meet your wife?
Richard Davis: Well, Dapto Leagues [laughs].
Stuart Traynor: Right. So she’s a local girl?
Richard Davis: Yeah, yeah. She’s from Dapto. Yeah, yeah, good woman. Yeah, yeah, very good woman.
Stuart Traynor: And where are her family?
Richard Davis: Her family is great. Good family, um, you know, European, ah, white, Anglo-Saxon I suppose.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: people. Never had any issues.
Stuart Traynor: So what’s her story? Did she grow up in Wollongong or..?
Richard Davis: Yeah, she was born at Wollongong and grew up in Dapto.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Um, her family, her, ah, Dad grew, was born at, ah, Coledale.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Ah, her Mum was born in England, but she, her Mum came here when she was about eight year old. So yeah, so she’s, ah, yeah, good family.
Stuart Traynor: And you’ve got three daughters?
Richard Davis: Three daughters, yeah. And four grandkids. Ah…
Stuart Traynor: You’re doing well.
Richard Davis: Three boys and a girl.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: Yeah. So and they’re our, um, you know apple of our eyes.
Stuart Traynor: Yep. So what do you see in the future for your family? Do you, what are your aspirations? Hard question, I’m putting you on the spot.
Richard Davis: Yeah. I’d just say aspirations that’s not my …
Stuart Traynor: I think you’re an inspiring bloke. I think you’ve done well and, ah, I really appreciate having the chance to share your story with you.
Richard Davis: Yeah Hmm. No my family’s important.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: Like, um, just want them to be happy with their life.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: Be proud of them.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: Wherever they go.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah. Oh, it’s been a real pleasure to talk to you. I really appreciate it. I appreciate the sharing, um, and, ah, it’s good to see, um, that there is strong leadership in a community like this. I think we; we’ve all got so much to learn and, ah, just having people like you talk on the Wollongong local studies, ah, program is a way of, um, all of us being aware of the full richness of our history. And I think in this country we’ve often been a little bit blind to, to really being open to the richness, the cultural richness that, that, that it’s come here and that we, we’ve grown up part of. And there’s things in our history that, um, that are not good, but there’s also lots of positive things and, ah…
Richard Davis: And I think you’re right too…
Stuart Traynor: Stuart.
Richard Davis: Stuart, sorry Stuart but you’re, you’re right, um, I don’t think we, we, we we, ah, talk about the positives enough and look what I say is let’s never forget the past.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: Talk about what happened in the past, about the good and the bad. But there are a lot of positive, positives, you know, and Aboriginal people are achieving, ah, you know, university – people are going to universities, people are being doctors, people are being lawyers, you know, whatever they want to be – teachers, um, you know. We’ve got people working in the, you know, the New South Wales government and and stuff like that, so yeah.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah. I, I was talking to a, um, a close friend who’s a Kiwi a few years ago and talking about the New Zealand cultural experience. And I said to him, ‘When do we know we’re a truly reconciled community?’ And he said it, it’s not about politics ultimately and, and things, it’s actually about when, when black people and white people are sitting down having a meal together and just sharing what we all have to share with no, with respect for, with, for different cultural backgrounds but just seeing each other as people and enjoying who we are.
Richard Davis: Yeah, no, that’s fair enough.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah. You do a lot of educational work, don’t you, you talk to schools and things?
Richard Davis: Oh, I talk to a lot of schools. Ah, like I said, I do live in the library with the Wollongong City Council. We’re going to schools, and I’ve been doing that for, you know, nearly twenty years now, um, and Wollongong Council I think it’s a great program because you’re going there talk about Aboriginal culture growing up and a bit about racism and, and all that. And I think the young ones are, are getting it. They’re they, I think they got it compared to what our age group did, and our forefathers did.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: Um, the young ones are a bit more switched on. Um, I mean not everyone’s gonna be perfect, but I think the younger ones are a bit more aware, bit more understanding about Aboriginal culture.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: Yeah. So…
Stuart Traynor: And you’ve clearly got a, a commitment to, to that. I mean you said before, you’re a good talker. I’m, I know exactly what you mean. That’s good. We actually need people who are, ah, eloquent and prepared to.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: ‘Cause communication is part of that.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: Taking it somewhere where we want go to a better place as a truly reconciled nation, I agree.
Richard Davis: Yeah, no, you’re right. Well, look me for what I, who I am and what I do, I’ve, I think I’ve got a bit of an understanding about where I’ve come from and, and I think we, we Aboriginal people need to be moving.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: Um, you know, there’s a lot of things that I disagree with, what Aboriginal people want to talk about, like, you know, the Treaty and, um, you know, changing the day of the Australian Day. I mean, I, I respect people’s opinions, you know, black, white, and green, but especially my own people, I respect them. But I think if we change the date, um, I think we’re segregating ourselves again.
Stuart Traynor: Have you copped flak by speaking about doing that?
Richard Davis: Yes, yeah I have, you know. And that’s fine. I’m, I’m, I’m big and ugly enough to, you know, stand and cop that. That’s not a problem. But, but that’s my view.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: I mean, I respect their view, if they want to change it, that’s fine, but that’s my view, um, let’s not segregate ourselves. What we should be doing is talking more about Aboriginal culture, talking more about the stories that in the past what happened, the good, the bad and the ugly. And, and until we do that, then you can have all these change of dates and the treaties and all that stuff, you can have all them, but what do they mean? It’s a bit of paper.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: It’s about what’s here. It’s about what you’re trying to get, you know white Australian to understand.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah. It, it’s interesting with the changing the date of Australia Day. When I moved here from Alice Springs in 2013, it was a much bigger issue here than I ever experienced in the Territory. And to be honest, the 26th of January is not a huge anniversary in Alice Springs. It’s, there’s later.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: Offence you know, when, when white settlement in in, ah, in 1871 happened.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor: So I was interested to know that but another issue that came up in Alice which related to this was, ah, Al-, Alice Springs is, is quite unusual in that every street, ah, is named after people in the history, predominantly white fellows. There’s not a, it was starting to change we’re getting, ah, significant Aboriginal people recognised with street names. But there was one particular, a, a policeman called William Willshire, who was notorious for his treatment, ill treatment of Aboriginal people. And there has been a move to change the name of the street. And, ah, I was asked on ABC Radio, um, because of my local history work, ah, a bit, a little bit about him. And then I made the point well, if we whitewash William Willshire out by taking his street name away, do we then forget um, the um, the, things that he did? I mean, I want him to be remembered for the mongrel that he actually was. So I, I can, ah, I can understand what you’re saying, ah, with Australia Day. Ah, I know it’s a tough day for a lot of people, but is it actually part of our process of, of recognising the, you know, the things that happened?
Richard Davis: Yeah. Well, what, see if we, we change the date, it’s just personally I think we’re segregating ourselves. Australian Aboriginal people celebrate this day and then white people celebrate this day and then we’re sort of going backwards a little bit, I think. Um, because, um, as I said, we need to talk more about it, um, on the day, ah, have more you know, more discussions, broader discussions about what happened, you know, and, and unfortunately the bad things.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: And what, what I say is leaving it on the same day, we’re still here, we survived.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah. No, I, I think you’re a brave man and I and I think, ah, it’s interesting, which is why I asked the question of did you get any flak.
Richard Davis: Oh, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: But I think it’s important that we…
Richard Davis: I copped a bit. But like I said, I’m big and ugly enough to not worry about that.
Stuart Traynor: Um, we’re talking about, in a way it’s about truth telling and being honest about our past, um, is there incidents in Wollongong history that have been glossed over? I mean, I, I come back here, ah, having retired here.
Richard Davis: Yeah.
Stuart Traynor And learning more of history and I realised my understanding of the history was, um, ah, was probably pretty limited when I grew up here. So I suppose what I’m asking is, um, is the full story of them the long Aboriginal history of this area starting to, to become out.
Richard Davis: Oh, and I think it’s slowly it could be better, you know, it could be a lot better, I think and look I, I don’t want to, you know have a go at them, but I think, look, Wollongong City Council has been a great player in, in doing good things and that, but I think they could do a bit more. Um, you know, naming places, um, of Aboriginal language, ah, or Aboriginal places, ah, I think there could be a bit more visual Aboriginal presence within the city of Aboriginal culture.
Stuart Traynor: Yep.
Richard Davis: Um, yeah, so that’s what I’d like to see. And I think they could do a bit better around that, around that.
Stuart Traynor: I mean, there is a strong base to build on ’cause when you look at it, there’s not many towns that have retained as many of its Aboriginal names as Wollongong. You look at the Corrimal, Keira, Kembla.
Richard Davis: Exactly right.
Stuart Traynor: Those places.
Richard Davis: So this is…
Stuart Traynor: There’s a basic …
Richard Davis: Why isn’t that promoted. Why aren’t the, the signs up to say, Corrimal – this what it means, Woonona – that’s what it means. Bulli.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: You know, Towradgi, Wollongong. Yeah. Thirroul.
Stuart Traynor: So what sort of, um…
Richard Davis: They should be proud of that.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah, I agree, yeah.
Richard Davis: I don’t know why we, we’re not proud of that. You know, that’s, I think that’s should be proud Wollongong City Council or the Wollongong city in general should, they should be proud of that then.
Stuart Traynor: So, um, the Illawarra Ab-, Aboriginal Corporation what, obviously a group that it’s a it’s a form of community leadership. What sort of things do you get involved in?
Richard Davis: Oh, well I’m, I’m the chair, I’m the chair of the Illawarra Aboriginal Corporation and we, we have a number of service that we provide, ah, aged care, housing, ah, out of aged care service for you know dysfunctional families kids that are you know on the verge of being taken away. So we want to try and keep families together.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis; So we provide that service. Aged care, um, cultural, cultural, ah, service we have at the, in Kenny Street there. So we have a number of services, Warrigal Employment, um, and, ah, you know Illawarra is you know probably one of the leading Aboriginal organisations within the South Coast, you know we have housing and, um, yeah. You know, I think, ah, you know, at, ah, the last time I looked we probably worth about bloody, you know, thirty million. And I don’t think there’s many Aboriginal organisations around that can sort of say that so…
Stuart Traynor: You’ve done well, mate.
Richard Davis: Oh, I’ve just been like, as I said mate, I’ve been lucky I’ve ran off the back of past elders you know and, and that’s what keeps you, me, me going is my past elders, me Mum and Dad and you know, Aunty Dolly and Aunty Olga and Aunty Linda and you know people like that, Aunty Gladys, and Mr Fred Moore, you know, the union movement. But you know, and I don’t think this is my personal view again, I don’t think we as Aboriginal people understand that. We don’t realise what them people went through.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: To get what we have. So let’s keep building on that. Let’s keep working towards make it bigger and better for Aboriginal people.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah.
Richard Davis: Instead of unfortunately we there’s too much dis- in the community this, um, disharmony, you know people – I don’t like this person don’t like that person, oh who does he think he is and yeah, so.
Stuart Traynor: It’s a pleasure talking to you because you’re a positive bloke and, ah…
Richard Davis: I try to be, yeah.
Stuart Traynor: And are, you are. And, ah, I as you say about recognising the work of past people even just by naming them here it’s actually a chance for us to, to, to get people on the record. Maybe more research, maybe following the maybe the the the the contributions that people made before you and your family will be.
Richard Davis: Well I’ll be honest with you mate, I, I see my contributions of you know probably that compared to my elders because as I said, you know, they’re, they’re the ones that have done the hard yards, you know, I’ve just rode on the back of them.
Stuart Traynor: Yeah. But you, you are providing, ah, leadership today and positive leadership from what I can see.
Richard Davis: I try to.
Stuart Traynor: I respect that, and I’ve enjoyed talking to you today. I thank you for your time.
Richard Davis: No worries mate. Thank you.
Stuart Traynor: It’s been a real pleasure.
Richard Davis: Thank you. Not a problem.